3rd seat actions in precision/weak NT structure

[ccw]

My parnter and I are in the middle of taking up precision and we are moving to a weak NT (10-12) .

 

One of the things we are wrestling with is the implications this has for 3rd seat.

 

We have played Drury as part of our 2/1 card for years (I'm not sold on it but it's not worth fighting over)

 

In this structure (limited openers and 10-12 NT) do people modify their 3rd seat actions at all? If so do you play Drury or something like it? If not, do you have other modificiations that you make in responding to a 3rd seat opener?

 

Thanks

 

Collins

[Apollo81]

I'd advise not to play 10-12 NT when vulnerable. Down 2 or down 1 doubled isn't too uncommon, and is a HUGE MP difference when vulnerable.

 

Drury is still worthwhile IMO. For instance you might have Axx AJxxx x xxxx opposite a 3rd/4th seat spade opener.

[dake50]

3-seat 1NT is purely obstructive to expected 15hcp 4th-seat (take away 1-level).

No 4cM expected; even to opening 4cM 3-seat.

Weak doubleton is in a major, not minor, to assure m-fit when partner jumps to 3-minor --safe 3-minor jumps should be encouraged.

 

Up the tops of 1M openers =up 1C bottom in 3-seat. I like 10-17. So Drury becomes even likable.

 

Respond to 1C 3-seat inverted: 1D is max pass OR 0-3; else 4-7.

[Cascade]

If you play 10-12 you should adjust your response structure to a third seat opening as you will almost never have anything like a normal 2/1 response.

 

Even 'standard' Drury is unlikely.

[oldman5757]

If you're opening really light in 1st and 2d seat anyway, then Drury is of dubious value. My preference is to play that after 3d or 4th seat opens 1 of a major, 1NT is semi-forcing, and that 2♣ or 2♦ shows a good suit, and not much else, with tolerance for opener's major. :)

[Cascade]

If you're opening really light in 1st and 2d seat anyway, then Drury is of dubious value. My preference is to play that after 3d or 4th seat opens 1 of a major, 1NT is semi-forcing, and that 2♣ or 2♦ shows a good suit, and not much else, with tolerance for opener's major. :)

We play exactly that is our 'standard' system.

 

1st/2nd seat 4-card majors; weak NT; 2/1 10+

 

3rd/4th seat 4-card majors (but more aggressive); strong NT; 2/1 6-9 with six-card suit

[rbforster]

My parnter and I are in the middle of taking up precision and we are moving to a weak NT (10-12) .

 

In this structure (limited openers and 10-12 NT) do people modify their 3rd seat actions at all?  If so do you play Drury or something like it?  If not, do you have other modificiations that you make in responding to a 3rd seat opener?

I agree with those that have said that if you're opening all your 10 counts, a "normal" Drury hand is pretty unlikely. There will be some shapely 9 counts with 4+ support that still qualify loosely as a limit raise in terms of playing strength (singleton or void, maybe a 5th trump or good values, etc). Still, it's a narrow target to aim for and I certainly wouldn't play 2-way Drury just for this. You might think about the rest of your system and decide whether or not to make 2♣ or 2♦ or neither Drury. If you can open a natural weak two in diamonds for example, maybe you don't need P-1M-2♦ to show this hand so it could be Drury, while letting P-1M-2♣ show a "weak two bid in clubs" which you couldn't otherwise open initially.

 

Edit: If you're opening light in 1st and also in 3rd, you'll want to worry more about competitive bidding by the PH (since 4th hand often has 15+) than uncontested bidding. For example, you might want to play transfers if they double so you can show a strong raise to 2M (bid 2M-1) vs a direct bid of 2M which would be weaker and preemptive.

[mycroft]

I've played EHAA, where 10-12 all seats and vuls, and 2-bids that take up most of the shapely sub-13s. If I pass in EHAA, we don't have game opposite anything short of a strong club (99% of the time).

 

In third seat, we played 8-~15 NTs. Judgement applied; we were certainly allowed to pass the murderball hands, and it did so rarely come up (as EHAA opens about 70% of the hands, and second hand opens a lot when we do pass) that I'm not sure we ever got to use it. We certainly didn't get to use the 3C and 3D "non-conventional" three-suiter responses (not conventional, because the 3 level promised invitational values - 10+ - and the only hands with 10+ that we didn't open were 10-12 4441s. Of course, we bid 3C with clubs and 3D with diamonds...)

 

We didn't play Drury :-).

[SteelWheel]

I've played quite a bit of Precision systems based around the 10-12 NT in 1st or 2nd seat when NV, 14-16 all other times, sometimes with diamond openings promising at least 2+ card suit, other times, a straight out "suicide" diamond.

 

The important thing to remember is to be able to make use of partner's passing in a 10-12 seat, to move the auction in a different direction. Roboticly counting your high card points, and seeing that you have an 11 count with long diamonds, such as a Jxxxx suit, ignoring your AKJx heart suit, and hence opening 1D is losing bridge--you've had two passes, it's still not clear whose hand it is--but you do know that when LHO bids spades, you're going to wish pard could figure out to lead hearts; the way to do that is to bid them yourself.

 

I go a lot further (some of my partners would say probably a touch too far) on this theory. I'll often ignore my raggy Q-high five baggers in the minors (in this 3rd seat NV two passes situation described above) and go straight for opening my good four card major with as little as 8 HCP sometimes (Horrors!).

 

And Yes, it does help to play some kind of Drury if you're going to play this style, although I think you need to adjust what a "limit raise" is in context of this kind of potential opening, and you also need to be able to ask whether the suit is a four-bagger or five-bagger.