hrothgar Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Red v Red, you hold ♠ AKQxx♥ x♦ AKJx♣ AKx You decide to open 2♣ Partner bids 2♦ (GF, temporizing) You rebid 2♠ and partner raises your to 3♠ (The raise to 3♠ denies a hand suited for some kind of picture jump) What's your bidding plan? Assume that you are playing relatively standard methods here (no spiral scans, no asking bids, nothing that you wouldn't expect a random flight A player to understand without significant advanced discussion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 erm 4♥ wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 It seems likely that I'm going to have to just blast something at some point here. The problem is that partner's third round controls (or lack thereof) in the minors are going to be really critical. Anyways, I'll try a 4♣ cue. I'm willing to blast 6♠ eventually if it comes to that, on the assumption that partner's 3♠ shows a half-decent hand (partner could've bid 4♠, or could've showed less than GF initially). The really tough part will be finding seven if it's there. I'm expecting a sequence like: 4♣ (cue) - 4♥ (cue)5♣ (cue, plus a ♦ card) - 5♥/5♠6♦ Hopefully this will tell partner that: (1) I have ♣AK for my two cuebids of clubs(2) I have ♦A and probably ♦K since partner's refusal to cue diams doesn't deter me(3) I have really good trumps, since I didn't bid RKC or 5NT as a trump ask If partner has ♥A + two of ♥K/♦Q/♣Q we should be able to get to a grand slam here. If 6♠ doesn't make, I'm unlucky I guess. If partner can't find a 4♥ cue over 4♣ then I'm just blasting 6♠ (obviously we have an ace missing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 We should have a slam, so 4NT seems ok. If pard shows an ace, I'll follow-up with 6♦ to see if he can cooperate for a grand with the ♦Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Ugly. Presumably 4♠ would be a "Picture Jump" of the kind that says "minimum." So, 3♠ must show something extra. However, two Queens (the minimum) would work fine. Wasted hearts would not. A difficult problem, as no cues help. A non-cue would be nice, though. I'd probably bid 3NT and hope for a signoff, after which I would bid more. In the end, I think you have to handle this hand with the plan of bypassing game, even though the five-level might not be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 We should have a slam, so 4NT seems ok. If pard shows an ace, I'll follow-up with 6♦ to see if he can cooperate for a grand with the ♦Q. Only trouble is we might need the ♣ Q as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't know of a standard way to find third round controls. I might cue-bid forever and see if partner ever thinks he has good stuff. I doubt that he will be able to realize he has enough with ♥ A and two minor queens though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Assuming we're playing fast arrival then I am forcing to 6♠. I'll bid 4♣ and if pard can't bid 4♥ then I will bid 6♠ directly, otherwise keep cuebidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 As a non expert I start with 4D, over 4H will try 6C. I expect to miss the grand. Now my true expert partner will need to look at her hand and figure out why the heck I (nonexpert) did not rkc(4nt) over 3s or 4h and ask for queen of trump or specific kings(5nt) . I think partner really has the tough hand on this auction. I think partner has the tough decision on trying to figure out just what the heck I I(nonexpert) am looking for and what I(nonexpert) cannot be looking for since I did not 4nt or ask for specific kings. :) ???? AKQxxVoidAKxxAkxx ???? AKQxxVoidAKxxxAKx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 I would like to do something to encourage a diamond lead, but I don't see what can I do. I'd just bid 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 There is a school of thought that suggests bidding 4♦ here, followed by 5♣. The idea is that when the second cue is logically 1st round, but you bypassed it earlier,the first cue was a suit in need of help, something like our diamonds here. I don't play that and so would bid 4♣, but I'd like to play it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I like the following treatment here: 3N is a slam try that asks for cues. Any new suit is natural. So I would bid 4♦ and then 5♣ over a 4♠ sign-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchiu Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 erm 4♥ wtp? That's probably the last cuebid that I would consider. Unless we have specifically discussed and agreed serious 3N, I'm putting 4♣ on the tray and waiting for the real problem to come next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I like the following treatment here: 3N is a slam try that asks for cues. Any new suit is natural. So I would bid 4♦ and then 5♣ over a 4♠ sign-off. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 There is a school of thought that suggests bidding 4♦ here, followed by 5♣. The idea is that when the second cue is logically 1st round, but you bypassed it earlier,the first cue was a suit in need of help, something like our diamonds here. That's interesting, but I fear it might complicate control-showing sequencies a lot. Still, something to think about with a pet pard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 If 4♦ is obviously natural and not a cue-bid, I do that. Otherwise just blast 6♠. I am not interested in 7♠ but maybe in 7♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 For what its worth, here's the complete deal ♠ Jxxx♥ AJxx♦ xx♣ Qxx ♠ AKQxx♥ x♦ AKJx♣ AKx As folks can see, 7S is a pretty nice contract We had not difficulty finding 6S however, we couldn't find an intelligent way to reliably find the Grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 7♠ is nice but not cold. A diamond may get overruffed although the chance is somewhere near 5% I think, maybe less depending on trump spots. If one of North's hearts were a diamond I don't think I would want to be in 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Yeah, it's pretty nigh impossible for a natural system to be able to dig out the value of the diamond singleton. Piece of cake for relay bidding, though. TSR '2 steps up' gets shape right at the level of 3♠, I think, after which it's a matter of 3 relays to cherry-pick the top cards, including the very important SPADE JACK :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Finding out there is no diamond loser is easy, just use RCKW, and bid 6♦ after partner's response. Problem is how to find about ♣Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 You can't find out about 3rd round control in ♦s and 3rd round control in ♣s. So I think I'd settle for 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 4C-----4S followed by 5C will show AK of ClubsD controlH control nothing better i can do. Piece of cake for relay bidding, thoughagree, easy 13imps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 If opener knew about the Jxxx of trumps then the auction: 2C - 2D2S - 3S3NT - 4H4NT - 5C5NT - 6C6D - 7S would do it. 3NT = asks for cuebid4H = cuebid, denies club or diamond control.4NT = keycards5C = 1 or 45NT = yeah I know and I know you don't have minor kings but I'm interested in a grand anyway.6C = club queen.6D = third round diamond control?7S = Yes! Maybe a serious partnership would be able to distinguish beteen the various grand slam tries, namely 5H, 5NT and 5D followed by 5NT. Perhaps the last would ask for extra help in trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 You can't find out about 3rd round control in ♦s and 3rd round control in ♣s. So I think I'd settle for 6♠. Huh? Over 3♠ 3NT serious.4♥ - 4NT5♣ - 5NT6♣ - 6♦7♠ 4♥ is a cue, denies minor suit cue.6♣=♣Q6♦ ask for 3rd round control, 7♠ show doubleton ♦. EDIT: Didn't read further before posting, Han and I are in agreement I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 As you know my preference is for relays (for which this is easy), and I DID read the OP but very old-fashioned ROmex would also do the job:- 2C strong 2H (2 controls - hence must be HA)2S natural 3S (no shortage, something extra to show)4D ask similar to Epsilon 4S (3rd rd control)5C similar ask 5H (3rd rd control)7S and before you ask whether this could be 3-6-2-2 with too much work to do, a suit so good is excluded (it must be headed by A at least in this instance) Asking bids are well-suited to strong two type auctions, or alternatively multicueing after controls are known so that you force responder to cue 3rd round controls.... Obviously in both cases it is a much easier auction because the agreed suit is S, providing room while if the trumps suit was say D, the auction would be far more tenuous for all except relay systems. Hence it has long been my contention that relay systems gain enormously for minor suit slams and grandslams which are rarely hinted at in other methods or just "unbiddable other than by punt" for those others... regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.