Apollo81 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 ♠A1052♥J5♦1085♣AK54 W/W imps (1♣)-1♠-(p)-?? Along with the standard options you have 2NT = 4-card limit (edit: or better) raise and 3♣ = 4 card mixed raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 2NT seems to be an accurate description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I guess I should clarify 1. whats your first call2. whats your plan over possible subsequent calls by pard (like a signoff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 If 2NT shows a limit raise then that's a gross underbid. If it shows a limit raise or better than that's perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 If 2NT shows a limit raise then that's a gross underbid. If it shows a limit raise or better than that's perfect. fixed my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 OK, then, 2NT is perfect. I will respect a sign off but will force to game (at least) over anything else. Partner should not sign off with anything resembling an opening bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why can't I just bid 2C and give myself some space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think that this hand evaluates as a limit raise 1. Partner overcalled. If partner had opened, this is an obvious game force. However, I'm not going to hang partner for a 1♠ overcall. 2. The AK of Clubs is nice, but I'd rather have my points arranged a bit differently. I'd be much more excited about ♠ AT52♥ T85♦ AK54♣ J5 I'm content to bid a simple 2NT. I'll be more than happy to coperate with most any game try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 OK, then, 2NT is perfect. I will respect a sign off but will force to game (at least) over anything else. Partner should not sign off with anything resembling an opening bid.Agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 nm... 2N seems fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 2N seems fine, but its better than a limit raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 all of you 2Ners, is anyone raising to game if pard signs off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Han, sorry but I don't understand. You say a limit bid is a gross underbid but also that you will respect a sign off. Isn't the definition of a limit bid that you have values to the 3-level opposite a minimum? Also, opposite the overcalls you and Arend are famous for (and you are even nonvulnerable) I think this hand is pretty far from forcing to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Han, sorry but I don't understand. You say a limit bid is a gross underbid but also that you will respect a sign off. Isn't the definition of a limit bid that you have values to the 3-level opposite a minimum? Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Helene has flattered me so I will have to answer. As usual, this is more a question of semantics and I am somewhat disappointed that given my answer, you cannot figure out how I use the words. When I say "limit raise", I always mean a hand that would be a limit raise opposite an opening hand. Indeed, an crappy overcall plus a limit raise can easily have no play at the 3-level. Over 2NT, overcaller should know that partner can have more than a limit raise. So overcaller signs off with the total crap that you might expect of us, makes a counter gametry with something close to an opening bid (think attractive 10-count to bad 12-count) and forces to game with a sound opening bid as usual. If you think that I misuse the words "limit raise", please start a discussion group with TimG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 all of you 2Ners, is anyone raising to game if pard signs off? If partner makes a weak bid - say a 3♠ bid which presumably shows no interest in game - I'll pass. If partner makes virtually any game try, I'll cooperate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Helene has flattered me so I will have to answer. As usual, this is more a question of semantics and I am somewhat disappointed that given my answer, you cannot figure out how I use the words. When I say "limit raise", I always mean a hand that would be a limit raise opposite an opening hand. Indeed, an crappy overcall plus a limit raise can easily have no play at the 3-level. Over 2NT, overcaller should know that partner can have more than a limit raise. So overcaller signs off with the total crap that you might expect of us, makes a counter gametry with something close to an opening bid (think attractive 10-count to bad 12-count) and forces to game with a sound opening bid as usual. If you think that I misuse the words "limit raise", please start a discussion group with TimG. For the record, when I describe this hand as a "limit raise" I mean that I have game invitational values opposite an overcall. I believe that this this hand is worth a game force opposite a sound 1♠ opening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogeshdg Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 all of you 2Ners, is anyone raising to game if pard signs off? No. If partner signs off respect his decision and pass. You dont have more than what you promised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I guess I should clarify 1. whats your first call2. whats your plan over possible subsequent calls by pard (like a signoff) 1. My first call, if 2NT shows a four-peice limit raise or better, with a four-piece limit raise or better and no stiffs, seems obvious. 2NT. My hand of ♠A1052 ♥J5 ♦1085 ♣AK54 qualifies. 2. Plan over subsequent calls from partner? I'll assume, because W/W at IMPs, that partner's parameters for his initial call are (1) not appropriate for a weak jump of 2♠, (2) somewhat sound, meaning an embarassing opening up to a gotta-double-first hand, (3) usually not 5-5 majors, and (4) possibly a 4-bagger. Uncontested first:a. if partner bids 3♣, I think this is normally a natural game try, which seems odd but possible. Opener is allowed to have a cruddy xxx in clubs. That makes the spade situation hairy, though. I also expect that partner may even have 4♠/5♣. Strange, but plausible. I think I have to accept this game try, though. Just to be sure I'm on the same page, I'll raise to 4♣.b. if partner bids 3♦, I'll punt back 3♥. I'm prepared to cue 4♣ if partner bids 3NT.c. if partner bids 3♥, I'll want to punt back, but I cannot. So, I'll just bid 4♠.d. if partner bids 3♠, I'll pass.e. if partner bids 3NT, he has made a call I don't recognize. Any guess is impossible because of my clubs. So, I hope he does not do this.f. if partner bids 4♣, I hate my hand and sign off.g. if partner bids 4♦, I'll last train 4♥.h. if partner bids 4♥, I'll last train 4♠. Meaning, I'll sign off unless partner bids 5♦ next.i. if partner bids 4♠, I'll say "good luck partner" and put my hand down.j. if partner bids anything higher, I'll answer gis question. Contested:k. if partner free bids 3♠ because he can, I'll pass.l. if partner makes an encouraging pass, I'll punt if I can, accept if I cannot.m. if partner doubles anything, I'll collect +800 or more.n. if partner cannot bid 3♠, and doubles, I sit.o. if partner cannot bid 3♠ and passes, I double.p. if partner makes some weird, delayed slam try, tell me what it is, and in what context, and I'll say what I'll do. I think that covers most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 2N, if partner bids 3S I expect to go down in 3S a fair amount of the time (not joking) so I think bidding is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I'll assume, because W/W at IMPs, that partner's parameters for his initial call are ...(2) somewhat sound, meaning an embarassing opening up to a gotta-double-first hand, ...Wow. So are you saying you would open AKJxx x xxxx xxx, AQTxx xx Qxx xxx, and a bunch of similar hands, or that you would not overcall 1♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Helene has flattered me so I will have to answer. As usual, this is more a question of semantics and I am somewhat disappointed that given my answer, you cannot figure out how I use the words. When I say "limit raise", I always mean a hand that would be a limit raise opposite an opening hand. Indeed, an crappy overcall plus a limit raise can easily have no play at the 3-level. Over 2NT, overcaller should know that partner can have more than a limit raise. So overcaller signs off with the total crap that you might expect of us, makes a counter gametry with something close to an opening bid (think attractive 10-count to bad 12-count) and forces to game with a sound opening bid as usual. If you think that I misuse the words "limit raise", please start a discussion group with TimG. For the record, when I describe this hand as a "limit raise" I mean that I have game invitational values opposite an overcall. I believe that this this hand is worth a game force opposite a sound 1♠ opening ok great, how should I describe this hand? Single raise? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I'll assume, because W/W at IMPs, that partner's parameters for his initial call are ...(2) somewhat sound, meaning an embarassing opening up to a gotta-double-first hand, ...Wow. So are you saying you would open AKJxx x xxxx xxx, AQTxx xx Qxx xxx, and a bunch of similar hands, or that you would not overcall 1♣? I'd either overcall these hands 2♠ or pass. White-v-white, I'd need about a five-winner, eight-loser hand to bid 2♠, and I view that LTC liberally when the suit is spades. So, with either proposed hand, I'd overcall 2♠ at these colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Why can't I just bid 2C and give myself some space. Agree with this. Given the constraints I bid 2NT and pass 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Why can't I just bid 2C and give myself some space. Agree with this. Given the constraints I bid 2NT and pass 3S. I think it's worth it to show the 4th trump immediately with 2NT. This is huge for partner, if he has a crappy trump suit or, say, a crappy 4-card suit on the side where he fears a bunch of deep losers. I think it's automatic to respect a sign-off over 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.