Continuations after Rubens Advances

[hrothgar]

Assume that you are playing transfer advances of partner's overcall.

Anyone have response structures that they'd like to share?

 

The auction starts as follows

 

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - 2♣

(P) - ???

 

What do the overcaller's rebids shows

 

Here's what I'm used to

 

2♦ = I can stomach playing 2♦ (You might easily have a stiff and

figure that playig in a 6-1 is the best chance for a positive score)

 

2♥ = I have a two suited hand with Spades and Hearts and no Diamond tolerance

 

2♠ = I have a single suited hand with Spades and no Diamond tolerance

 

2N = I have a good NT oriented hand and 1+ club stoppers.

 

3♣ = I have a good hand, no club stopper, and Diamond tolerance

 

3♦ = I have a weak hand with good Diamond support

 

3♥ = I have a good hand with short hearts and Diamond support

 

3♠ = I have a nice hand and a good Spade suit. I need Aces and Kings

to make game

 

Lets also consider advancer's rebids after

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - (2♣)

(P) - 2♦ - (P) - ???

 

2♥ = good hand with 5+ Diamonds and 4 Hearts, forcing

2♠ = Good hand with 5+ Diamonds and 3 card spade support

2N = Invites 3N (the Diamond suit could be 4 cards)

3♣ = Values, trying for 3N, needs a Club stopper and some help in Diamonds

3♦ = Long solid Diamonds, good hand

[gwnn]

I prefer 2♦ to show just a minimum hand and everything else to show opening strength. We play 2NT as high card raise of pd and "superaccept" to be offensive raise with minimumish values. Of course this depends on what you overcall on. Is AKTx and out an overcall?

[Apollo81]

When i play xfer advances i haven't usually discussed the followups by opener -- I think we assume that 2♦ in your first example means youd have passed a NF 2♦ bid and all other bids are the same as what youd have done over 2♦ if playing new suit NF

[pclayton]

The auction starts as follows

 

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - 2♣

(P) - ???

 

What do the overcaller's rebids shows?

 

Before you get into responding to 2♣, I would take some time and determine what 2♣ shows?

 

Does it promise "constructive" values (IMO - 9-13 or so) or can it be used to try to improve the contract? Can it initially be a lead director if responder retreats to overcaller's suit (without competition, I vote no)?

 

2♦ = I can stomach playing 2♦ (You might easily have a stiff and

figure that playing in a 6-1 is the best chance for a positive score)

 

Agree. I would say overcaller has a max of about a 12 count.

2♥ = I have a two suited hand with Spades and Hearts and no Diamond tolerance

 

Depends on your Michaels agreements. I would be happy to show 5 hearts before diamond tolerance. I think 2♥ is NF.

 

2♠ = I have a single suited hand with Spades and no Diamond tolerance

 

Disagree. While I don't think you have primary support for diamonds, you definitely have at least 6 spades. I'd say 2♠ is NF.

 

2N = I have a good NT oriented hand and 1+ club stoppers.

 

How strong is it? Is it forcing? I'd vote for 12-14 or so and NF.

 

3♣ = I have a good hand, no club stopper, and Diamond tolerance

 

As 'good hand', I'd call it 14 to whatever you consider a max overcall, which for me is about a good 17. I don't think I'd be specific about what I have in diamonds.

 

3♦ = I have a weak hand with good Diamond support

 

This one isn't logical to me at all. Why are we preempting our opponents that are passing? I'd say 3♦ shows a good hand and is forcing.

 

3♥ = I have a good hand with short hearts and Diamond support

 

Was 2H non-forcing? If it is, then I think 3♥ should be forcing and natural, but I don't feel strongly about it.

 

3♠ = I have a nice hand and a good Spade suit.  I need Aces and Kings

to make game

 

Is it forcing? I vote yes.

 

I'd also take time to discuss:

 

3N (15-18 or so and club stops)

4♣ (clearly a splinter raise)

4♦ (do we play minorwood?)

 

I think I'd spend some time on:

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (pass) - 2♣

(double) - ?

 

What is pass? (and what is a redouble by pard mean?)

What is redouble?

What kind of support / tolerance do I need to bid 2♦ now?

Does 2♥ or 2♠ show extras?

[awm]

I think there are really three types of hand where you want to bid diamonds over partner's major overcall. These are:

 

(1) Really bad hand, but no fit for partner and a long suit of your own.

(2) Okay hand, might have game if partner has a real opening bid, but don't want to get too high opposite the typical garbage overcall.

(3) Really good hand, wants to be in game but no fit for partner's suit.

 

People who don't play rubens advances have to pick one meaning for 2♦. Usually they seem to pick meaning (2) at least in the US. This means they have to pass (or bid 3♦ if that's weak) with hand (1) and they have to cue or something with hand (3).

 

Rubens advances let you pick two of the above, but I don't think they let you multiplex all three. The issue is that if you include (1) as a possibility then overcaller should virtually always accept the transfer, whereas if you include (2) as a possibility you want opener to do something else on hands with real values. I tend to play that the transfer is (2) or (3) so will accept the transfer with the typical "garbage overcall" and break the transfer with a full opening bid.

[MFA]

(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - 2♣

(P) - ???

 

3♣: Forcing to 3♦ only.

3♦: NF, not particularly strong, but a real overcall for once.

3♥: Natural, F1

3♠: Invitational.

 

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - 2♣

(P) - 2♦ - (P) - 2♠

 

would typically be a doubleton spade. NF of course.

[Impact]

If I play fit-jumps (and I do) , the reversion by responder to opener's first suit is usually constructive values (close to Adam's 2nd hand) with doubleton S.

 

We play overcaller's new suit as constructive and very 2-suited (almost certainly 10+ cards in 2 suits) after the advance.

 

Accordingly we play jumps by overcaller in new suit following the advance as fragments ie strong support for advancer's suit and implied 4th suit shortage.

 

Accordingly the cue by overcaller is either just strong hand with no clear direction, or potentially the fragment which might take you beyond 3NT in certain auctions (so advancer tends to treat the cue as a DAB initially).

 

 

NOTE: IN RELATION TO ANOTHER THREAD ON THE IMPORTANCE OF SYSTEM, THIS IS THE SORT OF MATERIAL WHERE GENERAL PRINCIPLES ARE APPLICABLE RATHER THAN INDIVIDUAL RULES FOR PARTICULAR SEQUENCES (I gave up absolutism when I realised that no one else I knew was interested in the "perfect sequence" with variations for individual auctions even if they could be reverse engineered at the table, as opposed to genreal prescriptive rules and principles). Hence the style is about locating fits, bidding NT when you have stoppers and retaining a general cue which says you have extras without an affordable direction...

 

regards,

[kenrexford]

Fascinating in a bad way, but good post. It seems like a rather good idea to have agreements as to what the next call means after adopting a sexy tool. Not having these agreements is kind of like playing "Roman Key Card Blackwood," and describing it as "Asking for Aces, the King of Trumps, and the Queen of trumps." Then, when partner says, "great! How do I tell you how many of these cards I have?" the response is "not sure about that part yet."

 

BTW -- I get that you were asking whether your defined approach is the best, and thus that you have one. I found it humorous later to read something like "I play these too, but we have not discussed what next."

[dake50]

You are asking the right questions. As with most schemes, load ambiguous cases into the lower bids to allow clarity in space-using/picture bids. I think you accept the 'what to do now?' as you suggest because 'others' are clear. Think as relay schemes 'what are 'page one bids?' Then, not a 'page one' is this a page two? Or relay to page three.