jillybean Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 [hv=d=w&v=a&n=skq964h5dk952cqj6&s=st8hat42d73cakt53]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South Pass 1♠ 2♥ 3♣ Pass 3♦ 3♥ Dbl Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 3♦ bleah p is showing a decent hand with 5+♣, we might as well support it. 3♥. (and yes, maybe this just asks for a stopper, but at least it doesn't deny clubs :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Okay..... are we supposed to assume that one of the shown hands is to blame? Or that this contract either went down, or made? Can I say East for driving vulnerable to the three level all alone? Looking at just the North South hands, on a black-suit lead I see five likely defensive tricks, sometimes more. And yes, I see that being in either 3NT or 5♣ offers fair play, but only that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I don't care for this aceless 11-point opener at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I don't care for this aceless 11-point opener at all. blame the rule of 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Blame for what, Kathryn? I would love to be defending 3Hx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 3♥X was a disaster; more due to the terrible defender play than anythingelsebut I also wanted to check in and see what people thought of the bidding.Not much so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 bidding seems fine. I would bid slightly differently, but it's certainly sensible the way it went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Ok I realise this isnt everyones choice but having opened this aceless wonder, after 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ I thought it was better to probe for nt than 4♣ yuk. And having opened this garbage I cant back out now.Isn't 3♦ a probe for NT promising ♣ tolerance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Ok I realise this isnt everyones choice but having opened this aceless wonder, after 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ I thought it was better to probe for nt than 4♣ yuk.Isn't 3♦ a probe for NT with ♣ tolerance? No. Since 3C is forcing, and I would even say,3C forces to game, you have to find a bid,hence you are describing your hand if you bid 3D, nothing more nothing less.=> And of course, partner is allowed to bid 3NT, if he has a heart stopper. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: Is 3C ok? Yes, South has a tough decisionto make, either he goes or not.The alternative to 3c would be 2NT, assumingit would be natural. If the North hand is a typical opener, South mayneed to rethink, if he should force to game, but 3C is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 No, 3D shows diamonds and does not show club tolerance. I do agree with you that 3NT is more likely the right spot than 5C so I don't mind 3D. If partner bids 3NT you pass, if partner bids 3H you casn bid 4C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 For me this is a clear opener. But I really don´t like 3 ♦. Which game do you want to play? Your choices are 4 Spade ( then pd will raise spade, whatever you do now)3 NT If pd has good stoppers5 Club if he has no stoppers and no spade fit. If pd wanted to play 5 Diamond, he had doubled 2 Heart to show Clubs AND Diamonds. He didn´t. So there is no way that a 3 Diamond bid can help you to find the right game. Bid 3 HEart and pass 3 NT. This may not make this time, but it is still the correct spot in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I never expect to be in 5♦ but after 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ wouldnt 3♥ be gf whereas 3♦ allows us to stop below game? 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ (P)3♥ 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ (P)3♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 3♣ should really really set a game force. makes every auction a whole lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I never expect to be in 5♦ but after 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ wouldnt 3♥ be gf whereas 3♦ allows us to stop below game? 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ (P)3♥ 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ (P)3♦ 3 Club is without discussion a clear GF and with discussion I would still play it as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 3 Club is without discussion a clear GF and with discussion I would still play it as one. Funny, I play it as the reverse of Jilly.... 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ (P)3♥ (-P-) 3♠ This is the only possible auction after the 3♣ hand where we could stop below game. It says "We have lots of points, but we don't have a heart stop and we don't have a fit, so screw it". Not everybody plays it that way, but I've certainly seen a lot of people do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 3♥X was a disaster; more due to the terrible defender play than anythingelsebut I also wanted to check in and see what people thought of the bidding.Not much so far. Oh. So in order to really be able to assign the blame, shouldn't we be privy to the record of the defensive play? Or would you rather not? ;) Anyway I think the light has finally dawned on me; 3NT is coming home on a heart lead if the ♠J is onside, which is better than an even chance on the bidding. Given that North opened that aceless 11-count (muggh), after South's 3♣ comes back across, North should probably be trying to get to 3NT, which is why I prefer 3♥ to 3♦ in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I will make note that 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ is GF For those vultures, here's the play :) [hv=d=w&v=a&n=skq964h5dk952cqj6&w=sj7hk9dqt86c98742&e=sa532hqj8763daj4c&s=st8hat42d73cakt53]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South Pass 1♠ 2♥ 3♣ Pass 3♦ 3♥ Dbl Pass Pass Pass CA C2 C6 H3 SA S8 S7 S4 S5 ST SJ SQ D2 D4 D7 D8 C4 CJ H6 C3 S3 HA C7 S6 D3 D6 DK DA S2 C5 H9 S9 HK H5 H7 H2 C8 CQ H8 CT HQ H4 C9 D5 HJ HT DQ D9 DJ CK DT SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts