Was I dumb?

[KungFuChkn]

[hv=d=w&v=e&w=saqt93hda7ckt8763&e=sj8754haq87d98caj]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♠ - 2NT*

3♠ - 4♣

4♦ - 4♥

4NT** - 5♥

5♠ - Pass

*2NT is 'Jacoby-esque', but only promises 3+ card support.

**4NT is RKC1430

 

Ok, so I was east on this hand. I know we probably have the ♦A and a 10+ card fit in trumps. The likely piece that is missing is one or more trump KCs in pard's hand. Had I bid RKC instead of cuebidding ♥s, I would've pushed into 6♠. I would've known the massive fit, and figured that the trump A/K could easily be my only loser.

 

1) Was I an idiot for passing pard's 5♠ signoff? Pard thought I should've pushed (and the result agrees).

 

2) Knowing there's a ♦ control in partner's hand, should I have just made an RKC call since I knew where enough cards lay rather than cuebidding again?

 

3) Or, would a better approach have been to gamble and blast right after 3♠ or one of the cuebids?

 

Thanks. (edit: ANd sorry for initially being 'directionally challenged')

 

KFC

[Ant590]

Is the diagram correct that East was dealer? The diamond cuebid suggests west was dealer. What did 3♠ mean?

[hrothgar]

Few comments:

 

1. Are you sure that East opened? The 4♦ cue makes no sense

 

Assuming that East did open

 

2. I dislike the decision to bid 2NT (especially if this could show a three card suit). I think that its a lot better to start by showing your club length and make sure that opener knows that club honors are good and club shortness is bad.

 

3. What does the 3♠ rebid show? Most people use 3♠ to show some slam invitational opener unsuited for some more descriptive call. I think that you have a fairly mediocre hand, especially opposite what rates to be a three card raise. If you do evaluate this as strong its probably best to show your hearts.

[KungFuChkn]

Sorry... .flipped the diagram.

 

West was dealer and opened. East, with the doubleton club, 4 hearts, etc was the 2NT bidder.

 

So, West's 3S bid *should've* shown a max one-suiter (17+). Yes, I know there's a heart void or long club suit he might've chosen to mention. But I'm more concerned with my own bidding (sitting East) than I am about where pard did or didn't poop the bed.

[helene_t]

What did 3♠ show? I find it a weird bid. As I understand Jacobi, opener should either show his ♥ shortness or his club suit.

 

Partner should not ask for keycards with a void.

 

You should probably pretend to have the queen of trump since that card won't be an issue with a 10-card fit.

 

Partner should not sign off after having heard enough keycards.

 

Of course you should not take out partner's sign-off (unless your 2/5 keycards were 5 rather than 2). Trust partner. Even if you were supposed to make a decision here, it must be a negative one, since you cannot know about the lack of a diamond loser. P could have more diamonds.

[Ant590]

I think you did all you could. Partner has almost certainly misbid with 3♠, and bidding keycard can never be right.

 

Presuming you took 3♠ to show "extras", you have made a slam try by cuebidding 4♣ and 4♥, partner has taken control and asked for keycard and you have answered correctly. Partner has now signed off. You could be a lot stronger to bid the way you did and I don't think your two 'extra' trumps is enough to continue.

 

Take a deep breath and congratulate partner for making up one, and move onto the next board.

[han]

If you ask for keycards and find that you are missing at most one keycard (including the queen) then you cannot sign off.

 

Your partner violated this very basic principle. There are many more comments to make about your auction but I wouldn't want to distract you from the most important.

[brianshark]

1. Knowing there was 10 card fit, you should have shown the trump Q with a 5♠ response. This is your mistake.

 

2. No, 4♥ is correct.

 

3. No, a 4♣ cue-bid is correct.

[vuroth]

1. Knowing there was 10 card fit, you should have shown the trump Q with a 5♠ response. This is your mistake.

If this is true, it makes a lot of sense to me....

[mikeh]

The entire auction was somewhat ill-judged.

 

I agree, btw, that East should have shown the spade Q.... Jxxxx in support of a known 5+ suit opposite whould show the Q, since partner may be reluctant to bid a contract that requires no trump losers from AKxxx opposite xxxx.

 

But that seems unlikely to affect the result, and may well have confused West, who (from the rest of the auction) was clearly inexperienced.

 

My comments:

 

1. It is in my view a big mistake to use 2N as a forcing raise promising 3+ trump. Whenever responder has only 3 trump, there will always exist a significant possibility that another suit will be a more effective trump suit. Not all the time, of course, but frequently. And it is usually difficult, even for experienced pairs, to get out of the major suit once it is established. This is especially true for pairs who generally embark upon cue-bidding over the 2N.

 

2. More fundamentally, it was a beginner's mistake (unless one belongs to the Steve Robinson school) to open 1♠. With 5=6 in the blacks, west was going to have profound trouble describing his club length. Imagine east were 2=3 or 1=3 in the blacks... the 6=3 club fit might produce a grand slam but be unfindable after 1♠.

 

And west will NEVER be unable to find a spade fit if he opens 1♣.

 

Frankly, I am not exactly sure how the auction would have gone after 1♣ but I think that the partnership would get to slam somehow.

 

3. I also strongly endorse Han's point about West having to commit to slam once he gets a response to keycard that tells him that only one keycard is missing. The fact that he felt unable to do so speaks volumes about why he shouldn't be using keycard.

 

4. East has NO rights over 5♠. It is a huge breach of partnership discipline to take another call.

 

5. As to whether East could or should risk keycard over 4♦, I can't answer that because the auction to that point was so unusual that I don't know what East could reasonably infer by then. In particular, the 3♠ rebid by opener mystifies me. He has a side 6 card suit. He has a void. He has the A of the other suit. He has a huge playing hand, altho its strength is largely dependent on partner's club holding. I fail to see how he communicated any of this via 3♠.

 

I don't want to sound too critical. The care and feeding of freakish hands is a difficult topic and I know that many B/I players are either taught or 'learn' to bid 5 card majors almost above all others. Furthermore, the long, subtle auctions that experts sometimes have depend upon a degree of partnership trust, as well as knowledge, that simply can't exist in a B/I partnership, even if it is a practiced one.

 

So I don't want to seem to be discouraging the OP or his partner. However, I think that anyone sufficiently interested in learning that he or she posts here (and bravo for doing so) is probably the type of player who will be able to make great strides in the game if given some constructive criticism... and it is the bidding I am criticizing, not the players.

 

While there are occasions on which experts will (to varying degrees) open a 5 suit while holding a 6 card side suit, that is almost never the case with 6 clubs and 5 spades, because that holding can ALWAYS handle a rebid. Contract to 5=6 in the reds, where opener has to be afraid of a 1♠ or 1N response to 1♦, and now 2♥ is a reverse. Many very good players will open 1♥ with modest hands with this pattern.

 

I hope all of this makes sense and is of use :)

[cherdano]

If you ask for keycards and find that you are missing at most one keycard (including the queen) then you cannot sign off.

 

Your partner violated this very basic principle. There are many more comments to make about your auction but I wouldn't want to distract you from the most important.

I agree with that, but let me also add that I think you bid fine. Your hand doesn't have much extras for 2N, so I think 4♥ instead of RKCB was ok (and all other bids seem automatic, including of course the final pass).

Your partner made several weird calls (1♠, 3♠, 4N, 5♠).

[KungFuChkn]

Hi all! Thanks for the replies.

 

Just one follow-up question:

Helene said, "You should probably pretend to have the queen of trump since that card won't be an issue with a 10-card fit."

...

brianshark agreed, " 1. Knowing there was 10 card fit, you should have shown the trump Q with a 5♠ response. This is your mistake."

This is a new one on me. On one hand, it makes sense. The likely split in trumps is (assuming pard has 5) is 2-1, so my length is 'as good as' the missing honor. I wasn't aware, however, that this was considered standard practice.

 

Is that considered the way of the world? If pard is, truly, on his max, then he might be grand slam hunting... and lying (and being wrong, if that's the case) makes me feel icky inside.

 

That said, I feel icky about my bridge game in general... So, I'm willing to continue the trend. :)

[helene_t]

Helene said, "You should probably pretend to have the queen of trump since that card won't be an issue with a 10-card fit."

This is a new one on me. On one hand, it makes sense. The likely split in trumps is (assuming pard has 5) is 2-1, so my length is 'as good as' the missing honor. I wasn't aware, however, that this was considered standard practice.

 

Is that considered the way of the world? If pard is, truly, on his max, then he might be grand slam hunting... and lying (and being wrong, if that's the case) makes me feel icky inside.

Yup, it's standard. Whether you reach grand or small slam, you should not worry about the queen if you have at least 10 trumps.

 

It's true that you get the added risk of trumps splitting 3-0. That is a 25% risk but in half of the cases the finesse is on, so it's actually a 12% risk, thus comparable to the risk of a 4-0 split when you have nine trump, something that often kills the slam as well.

 

On the other hand, the extra trump solves problems which the queen doesn't solve, such as more entries, and more trumps in the dummy to ruff losers after trumps have been pulled. Generally I think declarer will be pleased when the queen turns out not to be the queen but extra length instead.

 

Think about it: with a 5-4 fit, the most likely split is 3-1 so you have one trump in the dummy after pulling trumps. With a 5-5 fit, the most likely split is 2-1 so you have three trumps in dummy after pulling trumps.