RKCB 0341 or 1403?

[pholly]

Different partners prefer different versions of RKCB and I am trying to make sense of it all. This is my premise: the key card ‘asker’ usually is the one with the bigger hand or more particularly with the greater number of key cards though this is not always so. Nevertheless, the asker is more often than not interested in whether the responder has 1 or 2 key cards. If asker wants or needs 3 key cards, perhaps he should not be asking.

 

This being the case, one has to cater for the situation where responder has only a single key card so as to be able to opt out of slam. Playing 1403 OR 0314, there is no difficulty opting out of slam if trumps are Ds, Hs or Ss as the key card response is less than or equal to game; but with Cs as trumps, playing 0314 doesn’t work as with only a single key card, the response of 5D is too high to avoid slam. Therefore clubs should be played as 1403. From this, one can see that playing 1403 is also satisfactory for all suits.

 

The only contrary argument I can think of is that the asker more often wants to know in the main whether there are 0 or 1 key cards in partner’s hands. I have looked at this for some time and believe it is far more common to be searching for 1 or 2 (rather than 0 or 1) key cards when slam is being considered.

 

I would be interested in other comments or arguments for one system or the other.

[gwnn]

your point that 1 or 2 is more common than 0 or 1 and 2 or 3 is very good. also, sometimes you want to be in slam with all the keys or when you're off 1 key but you have the queen of trump covered. when pd has 1 keycard and the suit is hearts, you can ask safely about the queen of hearts when playing 1403 (i.e. staying on the 5 level).

 

0341 has maybe the upside that it's more intuitive. it is generally accepted as inferior. it has some hidden advantage I think but I can't recall it right now.

[Finch]

it is generally accepted as inferior.

I don't agree with this.

 

The very first thing to note is that whichever one actually is technically superior, the difference is tiny compared with most other system decisions you make, so if your partners prefer one version or the other, play whatever they want.

 

If you really start thinking about it, you want to play the version where partner makes the step 1 response most often. Which one that is depends on whether the asker is the weak hand or the strong hand. So if you read Kantar's book on RKCB, you'll discover that he recommends using different versions depending on the auction so far and who is doing the asking.

 

He's technically correct, but that idea is so frightening that even in a regular partnership we don't play it. We just don't use RKCB enough to make it worthwhile worrying about complicated agreements for it.

[Codo]

I agree with Frances. The technical merrits are really small. I prefer 14/30 but I don´t care much about it either.

 

If you want to solve the problem with clubs and diamonds:

Play 4 Club and 4 Diamond as RCKB for these suits. Has some disadvantages and some advantages which you will find out by yourself.

[skjaeran]

I prefer 1430. That's because the response that's generally the one I'd like to have space to explore more is when partner's got 1 KC, not when he's got 0. 1 or 0 is so much more frequent than 3 or 4 that the max alternatives aren't relevant when deciding this.

 

I agree with Frances that this isn't a big issue in a system.

[rogerclee]

I think that nobody on the face of the earth would substantially improve his game by playing one form of RKCB over the other.

 

Is 1430 technically superior? I think in a majority of situations, yes.

Does this matter? Absolutely not.

 

I will admit that as a beginner, I adopted 1430 because it was easier for me to remember :).

[brianshark]

The response of 1 or 4 is statistically more common that 0 or 3 making 1430 technically superior (albeit by a fairly small amount) to 0314. Kantar actually encourages changing which you use depending on whether it's the asker or responder having the strong hand but that's a bit too much micro-management for my blood. Maybe when I play in the bermuda bowl, I'll consider it.

 

Playing 4m or 4m+1 as keycard for a minor is a much more effective way of dealing with the risk of going too high when asking for keycards than swapping the 14/03 responses.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

If you play 4130 instead of 3041, you need to play

a different ace asking bid for the minors, at least for

clubs, ... because quite often you are willing to bid

6C, if partner happens to hold 1 KC opposite to 0.

 

I prefer 4 of a minor as natural forward going, and

I am quite happy with 3041.

 

The main point is, RKCB is not the key to succesful

slam biding, quite often you dont need RKCB, if you

have a good understanding about the auction below

game level.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

1430 is useless when responder is the weak hand and clubs are trump, but probably it is silly to use RKCB with clubs as trump anyway.

 

For 1430 counts that the 4N bidder is more likely to be interested in the queen if responder has shown on keycard.

 

Then again, as for 3 vs 4 it is probably the converse. (Of course not if asker is much stronger than responder).

 

I don't really care.

[Gerben42]

I agree with what has been said here. My preference is to play 1430 always.

[HeavyDluxe]

FWIW, Kantar states a preference for 1430 in the last edition of the RKC book. I think it is, as some have noted here, simply a recognition that there are slightly more circumstances in which the 1430 series responses will afford some extra space.

[kenrexford]

My regular tournament partner and I use all sorts of strange cuebids and other slam techniques, but RKCB is actually 03/14. That might say something about the relative importance of this decision. I might prefer 14/30 for some technical reasons, but it is the lowest on my list of gotta's.

[jocdelevat]

If you are b/i level like me and your partners the same level I think rkc 0314 is recomended because the first 2 responses are the same with blackwood and require no changes or memory load.

[helene_t]

I once agreed to play 1430 and exclusion. Predictably we had a misunderstaning as to whether the 1430 principle applies to exclusion also. I suppose the same could be an issue with king asking.

[Ant590]

I once agreed to play 1430 and exclusion. Predictably we had a misunderstaning as to whether the 1430 principle applies to exclusion also. I suppose the same could be an issue with king asking.

it's UDCA-suit pref all over again :)

 

Another one is when you play D0P1 too in a 1430 keycard ask.. then is double showing zero keycards, or the lowest "step" (i.e. 1 or 4)

[TylerE]

Just want to echo wht others have said. Playing 4m as keycard, and 4♠ over 4♥ as keycard. Or, to be a bit simpler (sorta), just play 4x+1 as keycard for x.

[pclayton]

In one partnership we play kickback and 0314. In another we play kickback and 1430. I know there's a technical reason for 1430 but I forget what it is. I really don't care - its what my pard wants.

 

One useful modification is to play 1430 but 0314 for clubs, as long as you can keep it straight.

[barmar]

If you use kickback, I think the benefit of 1430 is that after the better response (1 or 4) you have two asking bids available, which may make it easier to bid a grand. Of course, this requires you to assign meanings to both of those bids. One of them would presumably be a queen ask, I'm not sure what to use the other for.

[vuroth]

I live a simple life. If I'm using the same one as my partner is, I'm awfully happy....