Another vaguely interesting one

[hrothgar]

Here's one from last night

 

IMPS

South opens

Vanilla 2/1 GF approach

 

♠ AK9

♥ J8752

♦ K8

♣ J64

 

♠ Q6

♥ T

♦ AQT72

♣ AKQ73

 

We had the following auction which I'm not particularly happy with

 

1♦ - 1♥

2♣ - 2♠

3♣ - 3N

4N - 5♣

6♣

 

I intended 4N as a quantitative raise. When partner showed a club preference, I decided to try for 6. (Made 7 on a Spade lead). Unfortunately, I was faced with a guess after 5♣. To answer a point that Tim made makes in a later post, I was unclear whether 5♣ established a slam force. I guessed right regarding the final contract, but I still didn't feel good about it.

 

Potentially I should bite the bullet and rebid 3♣ over 1♥. I fully intended to rebid 3♣ over a 1♠ advance, but the 1♥ bid left me a bit nervous. I prefered to start with an underbid than GF in a potential misfit auction.

 

Suggested auctions are more than welcome. I'd also appreciate comments about the relative merits of

 

1. The initial rebid after 1♥

2. Your plan after a GF 2♠ bid

[whereagles]

I might have tried 4♣ over 2♠ or over 3NT, but I think you bid it well.

[TimG]

I like south's auction. But, I would differ from Richard in one regard: I think that once 4N is pulled, the partnership is committed to slam. Responder offered to play in 3N, then opener offered to play in 4N -- there's no reason to pull to 5C just to play 5C.

 

It would be nice if responder had available a rebid that showed values for game and the unbid suit stopped -- 3N seems to do the trick -- but, it seems that in today's game there is an almost religious need to check for a 5-3 major suit fit before settling in 3NT. I imagine that explains the choice to bid 2S instead of 3N. Once 2S is chosen, 3N over 3C seems automatic.

 

All in all, the auction seems fine to me.

[Edmunte1]

4♣ instead of 4NT is much better. Responder should bid 4♠ cue accepting clubs as trumps and showing at least a mild slam interest

[hrothgar]

4♣ instead of 4NT is much better. Responder should bid 4♠ cue accepting clubs as trumps and showing at least a mild slam interest

I really dislike 4♣, especially in the context of the earlier auction

 

If you look at the auction, opener has never showed any strength

 

He opened 1♦

Made a non forcing 2♣ response

Rebid 3♣ over 2♠ (doesn't show any extra strength)

 

Now he is pulling partner's 3NT to 4♣...

 

4♣ strikes me as a good way to declare 4♣...

[han]

I like your auction up to 4NT Richard. I think that 5C should be to play.

[mike777]

tough hand.

 

Prefer 5nt over 3nt, pick a slam.

 

I assume 2s is 4sf to game

I assume 2c was NF.

[Cascade]

I like 4♣ over 2♠ to show this hand. You have extra values opposite around 13 for a GF so the best part of 30 hcp. 4NT should be safe if necessary and we play an immediate return to 4NT over 5♣ would be natural with no interest.

 

With this hand I wouldn't bid 4NT I have too much support and potential opposite partner's clubs. But someone is still going to have to guess how well our majors fit.

 

On the actual auction I think South overbid, he showed extras with 4NT and then found something more with 6♣, and North underbid with good or at least reasonable fitting cards and a side AK. Of course you still have to hope that partner is 2=1 and not 1=2 in the majors or has a heart control of his own.

[TimG]

I like your auction up to 4NT Richard. I think that 5C should be to play.

Anyone besides me think that any move over 4NT commits the partnership to slam?

[Guest Jlall]

I also like 4C over 2S, but your auction was ok. The problem I have with your auction is how do you avoid this spot if your spades/heart shape is reversed? Or would you pass 5C with that?

[hrothgar]

I also like 4C over 2S, but your auction was ok. The problem I have with your auction is how do you avoid this spot if your spades/heart shape is reversed? Or would you pass 5C with that?

I don't have any good explanation whether I would have bid a 1=2=5=5 any differently than the 2=1=5=5 hand that I did hold.

 

As I said, I considered my raise to 6♣ something of a guess. I'm hoping that someone can suggest a superior auction using fairly standard methods.

 

I hadn't initially considered a 4♣ raise of the 4th suit forcing bid. This might work a lot better...

 

Not sure what continuations folks would recommend

 

Without discussion I'd assume

 

5m is to play

4N is a signoff

4M is a cue in support of Clubs

4♦ sets Diamonds and requests a cue bid

[mike777]

I can live with 4c over 3nt but I think we got to force this hand to slam which is why I prefer 5nt. Partner could hardly have a more minimum hand. Frankly I expected more.

[Guest Jlall]

I can live with 4c over 3nt but I think we got to force this hand to slam which is why I prefer 5nt. Partner could hardly have a more minimum hand. Frankly I expected more.

Parner had no heart wastage. Partner had a fit for a minor. Partner had a great hand for us. There is a different between "minimum" and unsuitable.

[Guest Jlall]

I also like 4C over 2S, but your auction was ok. The problem I have with your auction is how do you avoid this spot if your spades/heart shape is reversed? Or would you pass 5C with that?

I don't have any good explanation whether I would have bid a 1=2=5=5 any differently than the 2=1=5=5 hand that I did hold.

 

As I said, I considered my raise to 6♣ something of a guess. I'm hoping that someone can suggest a superior auction using fairly standard methods.

 

I hadn't initially considered a 4♣ raise of the 4th suit forcing bid. This might work a lot better...

 

Not sure what continuations folks would recommend

 

Without discussion I'd assume

 

5m is to play

4N is a signoff

4M is a cue in support of Clubs

4♦ sets Diamonds and requests a cue bid

Yes I agree that it was a guess, but a lot of auctions I come up with end up in a guess. On this hand 1D 1H 2C 2S 4C 4S will work very well but on other days the auction will time out badly.

 

I don't know about your suggested scheme, probably 4H should be natural (the 4sf bidder could still have lots of hearts). This means 4C will often leave you short of space which is perhaps why you bid 3C in the first place.

[helene_t]

As North I would probably have passed 4N. Not sure if I agree with Tim that 5♣ is forcing but I would at least say it's forward going (using this term to annoy Charles :) )

 

Maybe North should have made more noise. 4♣ over 2♠ is an option. Or 4♣ over 3N. Not sure what the difference is between the two.

[TimG]

I don't have any good explanation whether I would have bid a 1=2=5=5 any differently than the 2=1=5=5 hand that I did hold.

From time to time, I have played that responder's 2NT rebid is forcing, just like a new suit would be. (This is not something I have made up; Matt Granovetter, for one, has written about the method, I believe.)

 

It seems useful on this hand:

 

1D-1H

2C-2N

3S...

 

would pinpoint the heart shortness. Identifying the shortness is often helpful and makes responder's hand quite a bit better in this case.

[han]

With 1255 you could have bid 4H over 3NT.

[Guest Jlall]

With 1255 you could have bid 4H over 3NT.

With 2155 you could have bid 4S over 3N :)

 

Isn't 4H non forcing over 3N? What if you have xx and never want partner to pass? etc. I don't think it's so clear.

[cherdano]

How about bidding 4♠ rather than 4N? Over that, partner could jump to 6♣ if he understands the heart shortness. This is the only confident auction that I can construct.

I think 4N could also be based on 1255, I would expect Hx for a 4♥ bid.

[Guest Jlall]

How about bidding 4♠ rather than 4N? Over that, partner could jump to 6♣ if he understands the heart shortness. This is the only confident auction that I can construct.

I think 4N could also be based on 1255, I would expect Hx for a 4♥ bid.

hah, my post rocked with cherdano posting 5 seconds after me :)

[mike777]

I guess I am the only one who thought responder was dead minimum for his 2s bid. I thought 2s and then 3nt shows more than this as compared to a direct 3nt bid over 2c rebid and plain vanilla opening bid of 1D. :)

[Guest Jlall]

I guess I am the only one who thought responder was dead minimum for his 2s bid. I thought 2s and then 3nt shows more than this as compared to a direct 3nt bid over 2c rebid and plain vanilla opening bid of 1D. :)

No, 2S then 3N just says that partner could not commit on strain immediately over 2C. The most likely reason is that he is interested in playing 4H and wants to see if partner has a fit.

 

Basically partner got new information after he bid 2S and then chose to bid 3N so it can not be treated like he has a stronger hand than a direct 3N, the new information just made him feel more confident bidding 3N this time.

[mike777]

I guess I am the only one who thought responder was dead minimum for his 2s bid. I thought 2s and then 3nt shows more than this as compared to a direct 3nt bid over 2c rebid and plain vanilla opening bid of 1D. :)

No, 2S then 3N just says that partner could not commit on strain immediately over 2C. The most likely reason is that he is interested in playing 4H and wants to see if partner has a fit.

 

Basically partner got new information after he bid 2S and then chose to bid 3N so it can not be treated like he has a stronger hand than a direct 3N, the new information just made him feel more confident bidding 3N this time.

Yes I know but I still thought 2s was a minimum(if that is the right word) for this bidding which is why I bid 5nt not 4c. Responder has a 5332 hand with 12 scattered hcp and solid spade stoppers.

 

Good and interesting posts ty all.