mike777 Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=b&n=s864hkdkqj32cqt97&s=sjt972ha9d8cak865]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv] Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1♠-2♦2♠-4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1S - 2D2S - 2NT3C - 3S3NT - pass Seems normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1S - 2D2S - 2NT3C - 3S3NT - pass Seems normal. sounds pretty WTP to me... edit: for the record I could never reach 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Only slightly less contrived: 1S - 2D2H* - 2S3C - 3D3NT - pass 2H = catch all, the rest is natural (3D showing good diamonds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1♠ 2♦2♠ (Yuk) 3♠? Probably raise to 4♠ based on the shape but perhaps I should be turned off by the 2♦ bid. I have opened hands like this 1♣ although I think on the actual hand I would be seduce by the ♠9 to open 1♠. If I did open 1♣ then I think we can stop in 3♣. 1♣ 2♣* inverted2♦** 3♣Pass ** singleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1S - 2D2S - 2NT3C - 3S3NT - pass Seems normal. Is this for real? 2NT with no heart stopper and a three spades normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1S - 2D2S - 2NT3C - 3S3NT - pass Seems normal. Is this for real? No. I was trying to come with a believable auction to 3NT. I failed, it's hard! Csaba was in on the joke btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972. [hv=d=s&v=b&n=s864hkdkqj32cqt97&s=sjt972ha9d8cak865]133|200|Scoring: MP2♠ - 2NT3♣ - Pass/3♠ (both end auction), or 2♠ - Pass or maybe 2♠ - 2NT3♣ - 3♦3NT - Pass[/hv] In each case 2♠ is minimum opening bid, 5♠, 4+♣ (from ritong). North's hand is adequate in support for spades or clubs, but all his values is buried in the red suits. 2NT, if bid, looks for side three card suit. 3♣ shows 5+♣. North can now pass or bid 3♣. North can also just forget about it and pass 2♠. If north WANTED to force to game, 3♦ over 3♣ is game force with diamonds. South bids 3NT suggesting solid heart stopper (Qx is not a stopper), so north could pass that. I am thinking i would be playing 2♠/3♠ on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I will make a definitive statement. In actual play it would be 100% impossible for any honest player who is advanced or expert to get to any contract but 4♠. If I had to find some auction to reach any other contract, it would be north raising the opening bid to a very heavy 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 1S - 2D2S - 2NT3C - 3S3NT - pass Seems normal. Is this for real? No. I was trying to come with a believable auction to 3NT. I failed, it's hard! Csaba was in on the joke btw. It didn't seem real but it also seemed such a bad auction that it didn't seem like a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I will make a definitive statement. In actual play it would be 100% impossible for any honest player who is advanced or expert to get to any contract but 4♠. If I had to find some auction to reach any other contract, it would be north raising the opening bid to a very heavy 2♠. As I stated earlier if we chose to open 1♣ admitedly dubious on the actual hand but close we would not only avoid spades we would not even bid the suit. Twice on one day in the National trials I opened/overcalled 1minor with a 5Major-5minor hand when my suits were Major - 10xxxx and minor AKQxx. With spades and clubs it is ever so slightly more likely I would open clubs since it is usually easier to introduce the spades later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 How about 1S 1N 2C 3S 4S for 2/1ers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 WTF Justin, 4S goes down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very tough bidding honestly seeing both hands. In Gnome Club, the responder hand is really going to be the one making the decision as he will either show this as a Invitational raise with 3 spades or use a GF relay. I guess the other issue is what opener will choose to do over the 3-card invite. He can either show a minimum hand with a NF 2♠ call (responder is still free to try for game) or he can make a short or long suit game try. If he chooses the long suit game try, I can't see any other contract than 4♠. If he choose the short suit game try, then responder isn't going to be thrilled and would likely sign off in 3♠. I gave Jason the problem and he started with 2♥ which is a 3-4 card raise. I asked him what he would bid over: 2♠ (minimum opening) - Pass 2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff) 3♣ (LSGT) - 4♠ So about what I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very tough bidding honestly seeing both hands. In Gnome Club, the responder hand is really going to be the one making the decision as he will either show this as a Invitational raise with 3 spades or use a GF relay. I guess the other issue is what opener will choose to do over the 3-card invite. He can either show a minimum hand with a NF 2♠ call (responder is still free to try for game) or he can make a short or long suit game try. If he chooses the long suit game try, I can't see any other contract than 4♠. If he choose the short suit game try, then responder isn't going to be thrilled and would likely sign off in 3♠. I gave Jason the problem and he started with 2♥ which is a 3-4 card raise. I asked him what he would bid over: 2♠ (minimum opening) - Pass 2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff) 3♣ (LSGT) - 4♠ So about what I expected. Yes, short suit game try in D may get us stopped in 3s, which raises the question how do we decide when to make a short suit game try in D or a long suit game try?I do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff) And if the ace was in spades rather than hearts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff) And if the ace was in spades rather than hearts? I'm just reporting to you how it was bid. Our conversation was literally: Matt - "You hold xxx K KQJxx QTxx. I open 1♠. What do you bid?" Jason - "2♥" (3-4 card limit raise) Matt - "Ok. Suppose I bid 2♠ (minimum) over that. What do you bid?" Jason - "Pass" Matt - "What if I bid 2NT (SSGT) and after you ask, I bid 3♥ (♦ shortness)?" Jason - "3♠" Matt - "What if I bid 3♣ (LSGT)?" Jason - "4♠" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would just bid 4♠ over a limit raise, even if I have the space to make short or long suit game tries. Especially when it could be a 4-card limit raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=b&n=s864hkdkqj32cqt97&s=sjt972ha9d8cak865]133|200|Scoring: MP[/hv] Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972. OK, I get.... 1♠ 1NT2♣ 3♠ I don't get where 4♠ is coming from after that. I already counted my shape in order to open, I'm not going to count it now as extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 OK, I get.... 1♠ 1NT2♣ 3♠ I don't get where 4♠ is coming from after that.!!!!!!! You can make a good case for a game try if it goes 1♠ 2♠. Almost any hand with some combination of the working cards we are missing(AS, KQ, QS, AD, KH or QH, QC or xx or x) Qxx Kxxx xxx QxxQxxx Kxxx xxx xxQxx xxxx AKx xxxK8x xxxx Axxx xx etc. And you want to not accept a limit raise? What if partner's diamonds here were Axxxx instead, in which case you wouldn't even need the heart king? I still think anyone who claims they wouldn't reach game is either lying to himself, or needs serious work on bidding judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I still think anyone who claims they wouldn't reach game is either lying to himself, or needs serious work on bidding judgment. Hopefully the latter. I'm looking at your examples, and I still don't get it. Hand 2 is impossible, since the auction denies 4 spades in responder. Hands 1, 3, and 4 all look like they require a 3-2 split in both black suits, which is about 40%, yes? Who wants to bid a 40% game in match points? That may just me misunderstanding your post, however. Maybe I'll do better in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 That may just me misunderstanding your post, however. Maybe I'll do better in the morning. Yes you are misunderstanding. Those are hands that are a full range below a limit raise. The actual hand from south's perspectivewill be about 4 points better than those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 OK, I get.... 1♠ 1NT2♣ 3♠ I don't get where 4♠ is coming from after that.!!!!!!! agreed, well put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 It is impossible to have a 5-5 hand that is good enough to open 1S but will pass a limit raise. The playing strength increases a lot once a fit is found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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