Walddk Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=s6h854dkq7ckq10975&e=sa1074ha10972dj10c84]266|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]From the final of the Egyptian Premier League on BBO vugraph the other day. You are East, and South opens 1NT (15-17), raised to 3NT. Your partner (Walid El Ahmady) leads ♠5 (4th best) to your ace and declarer's 2. How do you continue? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I would just return the ♠4. Perhaps partner has KJ853 J xxxx xxx, or perhaps he has Q9853 KJx xxx xx. Can't think of a way to find out, so I just return partner's suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Maybe in an ideal world (ie one where partner signals perfectly) I can bang down the ace of hearts. Partner, any time they have the Q and not king, will play it, knowing I cannot have either minor suit ace. If partner has 2 small he can give me a discouraging spot (which I can read). Some problems with this: Assuming ud carding if partner has the smallest spot stiff and south falsecards I will not be able to read it. If partner has stiff J I won't be able to distinguish it from KJx or Jx. If partner has Jx I won't be able to distinguish it either. But maybe this is a good way to combine our chances? And of course, if I have to shift back to spades, I will shift back to the ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Obviously the heart ace gives up on ♠KJ85 or ♠KQ85 with partner, but would partner guess the right in that case anyway? (I.e. return a heart after our ♠T continuation at trick 2.) I think with ♥Qx (and good spades) partner will have no choice but to play the Q, and with Qxx we will also be able to read his signal even if he doesn't play the Q. From J3 he will also have to play the J, so if he does play the Jack it is probably odds on to switch back to spades. It seems ♥A does give us the best practical chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork rind Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 :( i dont think walid would lead low from nothing and he cant have more than 6 pts max. but declarer prob has 4 spades so it will take 2 leads thru him if part has kj or so(ie declarer may have q 9 xx. so lead back 10 of spades and hope partreads it for a heart side entry.tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 S4 We might need HA to push a second spade thru Q932. Agree with comments re: signalling difficulties after HA, esp. when declarer may be falsecarding. Even when it's right to continue hearts, we can't "know" it's right. Edit: See now why others say ST, not S4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 to me it is interesting to note that declarer did not falsecard in spades. If he wanted a spade continuation, then he might have played a higher pip to encourage that direction. I'm playing back the T of spades, saying that I cannot stand to have spades led to me if it gets covered, and hopefully P finds the heart switch (it looks like a toss-up between hearts and diamonds from nuetral holdings in both) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I'm playing back the T of spades, saying that I cannot stand to have spades led to me if it gets covered Why does it say that? What would you lead back from T9x? You are forced to play the ten from that too (unless you play the 9, but that is even more unreadable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I'm playing back the T of spades, saying that I cannot stand to have spades led to me if it gets covered Why does it say that? What would you lead back from T9x? You are forced to play the ten from that too (unless you play the 9, but that is even more unreadable). Sorry, meant to say denying higher honors, hoping partner will try to find the other entry in my hand to lead through declarer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 If I play back a spade, I play back the 4, not the 10. This gives partner count in the suit. It also tells partner (inferentially) that I think I have a side entry, because I'm not trying to run the suit directly. If I play back the 10 partner may think I have A10x, and (depending on his pips) may duck the second round playing me for a minor suit side entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 If I play back a spade, I play back the 4, not the 10. This gives partner count in the suit. It also tells partner (inferentially) that I think I have a side entry, because I'm not trying to run the suit directly. If I play back the 10 partner may think I have A10x, and (depending on his pips) may duck the second round playing me for a minor suit side entry. Yeah but now he will have to guess your entry, and he may talk himself into thinking that you have FIVE spades because you didnt lead back the ten as opposed to you having an entry (if declarer has Q832 and plays the 8 when you lead back the 4 AT743 is possible for you). Also curious, why do you reject any form of a heart play at this point (I'm sure you have a good reason)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 If I play back a spade, I play back the 4, not the 10. This gives partner count in the suit. It also tells partner (inferentially) that I think I have a side entry, because I'm not trying to run the suit directly. If I play back the 10 partner may think I have A10x, and (depending on his pips) may duck the second round playing me for a minor suit side entry. Yeah but now he will have to guess your entry, and he may talk himself into thinking that you have FIVE spades because you didnt lead back the ten as opposed to you having an entry (if declarer has Q832 and plays the 8 when you lead back the 4 AT743 is possible for you). Also curious, why do you reject any form of a heart play at this point (I'm sure you have a good reason)? He's not going to find it hard to guess my entry if we need to run the suit.I agree the 5 spades issue is a problem. But I don't think playing the 10 is problem-free. And in particular playing back a very slow 10 will give partner real UI issues. I haven't actually said whether I'm playing a spade or a heart. I just said IF I play a spade, I'm playing the 4.------------------------------------------------- Partner has 4-6 HCP. Unless we are playing unusual leads, partner has a spade honour. He's actually quite likely to have five spades given the other shapes known, although not certain. A spade return is right if(i) we are running spades and need the ace of hearts as an entry(ii) he has a minor suit ace and declarer has one spade stop (unlikely but possible) A heart return is trying to run the suit. The ace of hearts seems to be aiming at a very small target i.e. KQx or KJx in partner's hand: and we need him to unblock an honour under the ace. Even if he's got this, as you say we can't tell the difference between KJx and Jx. What's worse, with Kx he will unblock as well as it is possible that we have AQxxxx (rather than our random minor suit jack). So when partner plays a the K or the J you STILL don't know what to do. Given all of that, I would rather switch to a low heart than the ace (maybe declarer has KJ doubleton). But in that case I might as well play a spade. Double dummy I can buy the ace of hearts. But not single dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I agree the 5 spades issue is a problem. But I don't think playing the 10 is problem-free. Agree. I haven't actually said whether I'm playing a spade or a heart. I just said IF I play a spade, I'm playing the 4. Sorry, can't read. The ace of hearts seems to be aiming at a very small target i.e. KQx or KJx in partner's hand: and we need him to unblock an honour under the ace. Yes, but a spade back also aims at a narrow target relative to the HA...(KJ8x of spades, KJ9x/ KJ9xx+Jx H) or 1 spade stop +DA, and even when we do play back a spade (whichever spade it is) partner will have to read the position to A) not continue spades and B ) shift to hearts rather than diamonds (which I don't think is clear, isn't it a random guess?). Even if you think B is clear, A is not. And a small heart shift aims at a narrow target relative to the HA shift, KJ tight with declarer or a heart holding from partner that we cannot read after the HA and shift back to a spade. What's worse, with Kx he will unblock as well as it is possible that we have AQxxxx (rather than our random minor suit jack). If partner has Kx of hearts, given his 4-6 HCP, we cannot set this hand since declarer has both minor suit aces and a spade stopper so that is an irrelevant position, unless partner also has KJ of spades and they opened 1N 1 light, in which case he would not unblock the HK. Given all of that, I would rather switch to a low heart than the ace (maybe declarer has KJ doubleton). Basically I think that everything is aiming at a small target, and I think a small heart is clearly inferior to any spade back or the ace of hearts. You gain on KJ tight and a misguess when you lead a small heart back but you lose on every hand where we can run spades at them (KJ9x with pard or KJxxx any), except when he has one of those holdings with Jx of hearts. I think that KJ tight specifically + a misguess is way less likely than us having spades to run without partner having Jx of hearts. I do not know whether a spade or the HA back is better, but I feel like given the fact that even if we lead back a spade partner might get the D wrong + just the chances of partner having KQx/KJx of hearts rather than KJ8x of spades, or KJ9x/KJxxx+Jx of hearts makes the heart ace the right play but I am very unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted February 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 If you decide to cash ♥A at trick 2, declarer follows with the queen, partner with .... well, I don't know what you expect him to do :) . Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 [hv=d=s&v=n&n=s6h854dkq7ckq10975&w=skj95hj63d8542cj3&e=sa1074ha10972dj10c84&s=sq832hkqda963ca62]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]1NT - 3NTLead: ♠5 to the ace. This turned out to be a very difficult defence. Tarek Sadek continued spades with the 4 to El Ahmady's 9. Walid didn't read the layout and the contract made. It didn't cost much because their team-mates at the other table bid to the much better 5♣ and made it. ♠10 at trick two, or ♥A followed by ♠10 would have made it easier for the defence, but that wasn't obvious at all. There is an interesting point to make if Sadek returns ♠10 and South covers. When West cashes his two remaining spade winners, East must follow with the 7 and 4 to indicate values in hearts (a variation of Lavinthal's suit preference signal). They would no doubt get that right if Sadek had returned the 10. The fact that one of the world's leading pairs got the defence wrong here goes to show that it's not straightforward. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 The fact that one of the world's leading pairs got the defence wrong here goes to show that it's not straightforward. Roland Yes Roland this is one of the most interesting defensive problems I've seen, I still have no idea what's right, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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