rogerclee Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 IMPs, Red vs White ♠QJ8♥J8♦AQT5♣A862 In second seat:1♥-Dbl-P-2♠3♥-P-P-4♣P-? Go for the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 4♠. Is that the money? We are already at the 4 level, and I would rather try 4♠, even (probably) in a Moysian than 5♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 4♥, let partner choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 ifdpass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 You dangle a 620 in front of me and expect me to pass? Plenty of hands with 9 or 10 black cards where we can roll 10 in spades. This hand has increased in value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 parddhas 4 spd aes guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 wth is 4♠? Why would partner offer another suit if he wants to play in spades when we have three of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Pass seems very normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 wth is 4♠? Why would partner offer another suit if he wants to play in spades when we have three of them!Well, we do have a decent hand. We have 13 working HCP (we could have much less), we have a club fit, and some sort of a spade fit.Our alternatives seem to be Pass, 4♠ and 5♣. 5♣ is not attractive with a doubleton heart, as we rate to lose the first 2 tricks there.Pass is reasonable, but they don't pay a vulnerable game bonus for playing in Gerber. So I choose 4♠. True, partner can be confident we have 3 card ♠, and not a doubleton, but our chunky QJ8 will hopefully combine with partner's holding. I don't know what partner has, perhaps ATxx, xx, Jx, Axxxx, perhaps (OK, probably :angry: ) some other hand. I don't claim 4♠ is the correct bid here, but to me it does seem a reasonable bid, and not a 'WTH' bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 wth is 4♠? Why would partner offer another suit if he wants to play in spades when we have three of them!Well, we do have a decent hand. We have 13 working HCP (we could have much less), we have a club fit, and some sort of a spade fit.Our alternatives seem to be Pass, 4♠ and 5♣. 5♣ is not attractive with a doubleton heart, as we rate to lose the first 2 tricks there.Pass is reasonable, but they don't pay a vulnerable game bonus for playing in Gerber. So I choose 4♠. True, partner can be confident we have 3 card ♠, and not a doubleton, but our chunky QJ8 will hopefully combine with partner's holding. I don't know what partner has, perhaps ATxx, xx, Jx, Axxxx, perhaps (OK, probably :angry: ) some other hand. I don't claim 4♠ is the correct bid here, but to me it does seem a reasonable bid, and not a 'WTH' bid. It's a wth bid. What is this "some sort of spade fit", our spade fit is the minimum it can be! You say essentially "our hand is not bad and we have a better fit for clubs than spades" and then list 4♠ as an alternative. I am not seeing where that logical connection was made. If you are bidding 4♠ here then you are just always bidding it on this auction, which means partner's opinion means nothing to you since he has suggested a better alternative. They don't pay a vulnerable game bonus for going down either. Partner doesn't have the ace of clubs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Clear pass for me If 4S had a play partner would have already bid it (we are in imps and we are red). Our hand isnt a dead minimum but with Jx in ♥ we can safely say that our hand has no extra. I expect -1 in 4C will be the most frequent result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Clear pass IMO. We're not making game on this one after this bidding. Partner might make 4♣, but spades rate to be 4-2 (or even 5-1), so I'd say we'd not even make 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I don't know what partner has, perhaps ATxx, xx, Jx, AxxxxPartner doesn't have the ace of clubs as well.D'oh!I agree with you there. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 parddhas 4 spd aes guys! No problem. Our hand is taking the tap, or we may to make our hand the master. RHO has a maximum of one more entry, and after that, RHO is out of the picture and the tap can't be continued. I agree there may be serious handling problems, but they should be able to overcome. Our hand has really improved here with the double fit that we didn't know about, and the presumed lack of heart duplication. I would say pard has about a 10 count and 4=2=2=5, 4=3=1=5 or 4=1=3=5. Some typical hands would look like: 1. ♠Kxxx ♥Ax ♦xx ♣Kxxxx 2. ♠Axxx ♥xxx ♦x ♣KQJxx 3. ♠AKxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣QJxxx On #1, is a decent game. On #2, game is definitely a dog. On #3, game looks pretty good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Pass is very nice but I'd 100% bid 4♥ at the table :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 How can you decline a game invitation and then suddenly decide to accept later when partner makes a non-forcing, competitive bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 How can you decline a game invitation and then suddenly decide to accept later when partner makes a non-forcing, competitive bid? Because you can make the judgement that, at the time you are first invited, passing rates to be best with the information that you have. You can then learn new information and make the judgement that bidding game rates to be best, even if the new information was just a competitive bid, or bids by the opponents. These things are not logically inconsistent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Perhaps Winston's question should have been "How can you decline a game invitation and then suddenly decide to accept later when your hand has actually got worse?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Yep, good point gnasher and others, and I think you are right. I regret my initial post in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Perhaps Winston's question should have been "How can you decline a game invitation and then suddenly decide to accept later when your hand has actually got worse?" Why worse? 1. RHO's 3♥ call has made it less likely pard has worthless ♥ honors; 2. We now have a double fit we didn't know about, as well as a pard willing to take a call at the 4 level. I recognize that 1 is somewhat intertwined with 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 How do we have a double fit? partner has 4 spades and we have 3, that's not a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 How do we have a double fit? partner has 4 spades and we have 3, that's not a fit. And even if you want to call this a double fit, partner DID know about it and left us the option of stopping in 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I'm late to the thread, but this is an easy pass for me.. even before I read the comments of the other passers. Bidding is hanging partner: whose choice was to defend 3♥ with some 4=5 or 4=6 in the blacks, with his 8-9 hcp, or be in game red with (almost) no play.... that is, that's the choice you are giving him when you take a push with a minimum takeout double. Ok, we all double with a tad less hcp, but we would (I think) almost always hold 4 spades and/or a stiff heart with a weaker hcp hand. And partner has to be an idiot to bid 4♣ with 5 spades or with only 4 clubs. So pass. We are allowed to play partscores when vulnerable at imps, guys :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 IMPs, Red vs White ♠QJ8♥J8♦AQT5♣A862 In second seat:1♥-Dbl-P-2♠3♥-P-P-4♣P-? Go for the money? Does not partner assume we are 4144 with an opening hand for our double at this vul?If so then how do we have extra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 its a clear pass IMO, but QJx in spades is not the worst we can have, Qxx or Jxx are obviously worse and possible, Axx or Kxx might be even worse as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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