Assess Blame For Missing Game

[rogerclee]

Assess blame for missing game (if you think anyone is at fault).

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sxxxhak8xxxxdxxca&s=saqtxht9dkjct9xxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Auction:

 

1♥-(2♦)-x-(P)

2♥-AP

 

Makes 5 when it's ♦A+♠K on and 2-2♥, with ♠J off.

[mike777]

North 100%...what is your system?

[awm]

I think south should bid on. The diamond king is very well placed, and it's more than 50-50 that a spade honor is onside as well. South should upgrade for these things.

 

Obviously there is some style issue if you regularly open 10-counts with six hearts, in that opener's 2♥ rebid becomes rather wide ranging.

[jdonn]

I blame north more. South could have bid again but north has a lot of tricks to just bid 2♥.

[grrigg]

North had to bid more than 2♥, this bid can be made on any minimal hand and doesnt promise 6 hearts. I am not sure I truly want to make a move with South's hand (I guess it depends a bit on what you open). Have to bid at least 3♥, maybe 4 if you are feeling lucky.

 

PS Deleted original reply because I thought North had 8 hearts.

[Guest Jlall]

I think 2H is terrible opposite a 2 level negative double, and I think souths pass is fine. 2H doesn't even contain 6 hearts a lot of the time, and while the K of diamonds is well placed the jack is pretty much worthless. A 2 level negative X shows more than replying to a 1 bid.

[rogerclee]

North's Hand has chances to make 4♥ against very little help from partner. I dont know how many people would just open 4♥ but if you dont its mostly not to miss a slam. Now that partner made a positive noise you definitely just want to bid 4♥ and be happy. At any rate 2♥ is just way too little. The blame is 99% on North.

Would you really rebid 4♥? I imagine 3♥ is enough (which S would obviously raise to game).

[CSGibson]

Both were conservative, but I think N should find a 3 heart call. 2 hearts in this auction can occur on 5 hearts with a 2-5-3-3 minimum, among other hands, so South's inaction is at least understandable if unduly pessimistic.

[grrigg]

North's Hand has chances to make 4♥ against very little help from partner. I dont know how many people would just open 4♥ but if you dont its mostly not to miss a slam. Now that partner made a positive noise you definitely just want to bid 4♥ and be happy. At any rate 2♥ is just way too little. The blame is 99% on North.

Would you really rebid 4♥? I imagine 3♥ is enough (which S would obviously raise to game).

For some reason I saw ♥8 as 2 cards sorry :mellow: So scratch what I said about opening 4♥. However 2♥ is a huge underbid and I am much much closer to bidding 4♥ than 2.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

The auction looks reasonable, so my

answer would be noone.

 

If someone should have done more, it

would be South.

But I would say it is close, and it depends

to a large degree, how weak a hand could

be and still make a neg. X.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[whereagles]

Obvious 4♥ rebid by North.

[Finch]

I think this is actually quite tough.

 

A 4H rebid by North is a silly overbid. 3H is reasonable.

[655321]

I like a 4♥ rebid by North.

 

2♥ is not enough, 3♥ shows a different hand (more HCP, typically 6 hearts only), and a strong hand can go via 3♦.

4♥ should just show a bunch of playing tricks, not enough HCP to bid 3♥, but a hand willing to try to make a game opposite a responder who could scrape up a negative double.

[whereagles]

I think this is actually quite tough.

 

A 4H rebid by North is a silly overbid. 3H is reasonable.

Contradiction: if 4H is silly and 3H is normal, then this isn't tough at all :)

 

In any case, 4H isn't silly. It's practical. 3H is the unlucky expert bid.

[lilboyman]

I think both erred. 2H opposite a 2 level neg double is an underbid by N. S has a 7 loser hand opposite an opening hand and should raise to game over 2 H. If the N rebid does not promise 6 Hearts in your agreements then 3 H by S would be ok and N then should raise to game.

[P_Marlowe]

I think both erred.  2H opposite a 2 level neg double is an underbid by N.  S has a 7 loser hand opposite an opening hand and should raise to game over 2 H.  If the N rebid does not promise 6 Hearts in your agreements then 3 H by S would be ok and N then should raise to game.

Just a simple remark:

Even if 2H by North showed a 6 card suit, and

I would disagree with this claim, South should

not raise 2H to 4H, just because he holds a 7

looser hand.

 

South only knows about a 6-2 fit, and if Souths

wants to use the LTC, he should add a looser,

because the quality of the fit is not good enough

to use the LTC without adjustments.

And I dont see a reason to upgrade the South hand

with regard to the looser counthand to counter the

downgrading argument.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

I don't know. What if North had something like....

 

xx

AKxxx

Ax

xxxx

 

Do you usually open that? Is it a 2♥ rebid or 3♣?

 

If you play that 3♣ here would promise at least a little extra, then I just don't see how South can make another bid.

[pclayton]

2♥ is a big underbid. Pass is a mild underbid, but might have been right. 70 N 30 S.

 

It's IMPs people - don't miss your games!

[oldman5757]

I would have thought about opening 4 ♥ with this hand, but agree that it is probably too good for that bid. In the auction given, 2 ♥ shows only a minimum opener, so N must find a 3♥ call with this hand. The 3 small ♠ are less of a concern after P's neg x. Then S has an easy raise to 4♥.

 

If N mistakenly does rebid 2 ♥, then S should consider a 2nt call, which states the values and shape nicely. The call could backfire, but I think you should stretch to invite. B)

[mikeh]

I think this is actually quite tough.

 

A 4H rebid by North is a silly overbid.  3H is reasonable.

Contradiction: if 4H is silly and 3H is normal, then this isn't tough at all B)

 

In any case, 4H isn't silly. It's practical. 3H is the unlucky expert bid.

There are 3 possible calls for North.

 

2♥: very conservative but not silly. Opposite some negative double minimums, 2♥ may be the limit on the hand. And on many hands yielding a good play for game, partner will bid on. However, that 7th trump makes it too risky for me.

 

3♥: looks reasonable to me. Partner will raise with any excuse, while this does not commit me to a hopeless game opposite a minimum. This is the expert bid, not the unlucky expert bid. It is also a good descriptive call, in terms of playing strength, if partner has slam ambitions.

 

4♥: an overbid/misbid. The type of bid made by players who play bridge as a form of solitaire... where partners are not supposed to think.... or are deemed by North as incapable of thinking. I can understand 4♥ if we knew that our call ended the auction, but, of course, it doesn't: South is unlimited and will/should not play North for this hand for 4♥.

[whereagles]

Mike, what you deem to be a "solitaire" call is actually what I saw a french standard textbook recommend:

 

1M 1x

4M = long, strong hearts with A or K on the side. A preempt hand with side values, that is.

 

In practice it does work more often than you'd like. I remember one hand where I held something like:

 

xx

xx

AQxx

xxxxx

 

pard me

1♠ 1NT

3♠

 

Pass or bid 4? I can't remember pard's hand, but he had like 7 strong spades and side stuff - the typical 1M-1x-4M hand that I mentioned - and the only way to bid game is to bid 4 now on what is close to a dead min 1NT

 

I actually guessed right and bid game, hoping that game was on the ♦finesse, which it was. Pard, who was quite the theoretician, wandered for like 2 mins why game turned out to be such good odds and whether he should have been the one to bid it.

 

On the original hand, since pard's negative dbl usually shows some extras as compared to a normal response to 1♥, game looks an even better shot. I just hope people one day start to realize bidding isn't just about showing your hand but also to make decisions when the time is right.

[awm]

Some examples of why I think south should take another call:

 

♠Jxx

♥AK8xxx

♦xxx

♣A

 

Is this a 3♥ rebid? Game on this hand is pretty good, especially given the location of the majority of the opponents' values.

 

♠Kxx

♥KQJxxx

♦xx

♣Ax

 

Is this 13-count a 3♥ rebid? Game on this hand depends only on a diamond guess.

 

Certainly there is a style where you open 1♥ with 6322 10-counts and maybe with this style the above hands are 3♥ rebids, but in this case you need to keep your negative doubles up to strength. Despite the claims that "negative double at the two-level shows a good hand" I see an awful lot of people double with:

 

♠Axxx

♥Jx

♦xxx

♣QJxx

[jdonn]

You ignore what a couple have hinted at. It's not even a certainty the 2♥ rebid has six hearts. I know I have seen Rodwell rebid his major on an auction like this with five, ignoring his four card minor on the side, because he thinks he is much less likely to be doubled on the two level in case of disaster. That would make inviting by south very dangerous.

[han]

I think north has a fairly clear 3H bid. Agree with wereagles, this is not tough. :rolleyes: