gwnn Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 AxxxxxAKxxxxx 1NT-2♥-3♠-? MP, all white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 4♦ cue, wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 It is clear to make a slam try. I will just cue 4♦ and give up if partner doesn't move to slam by himself over that, I don't think I am good enough to bid keycards over partner's 4♥ cooperation, although it is close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 It would be nice to know what this super accept shows. I use this jump to show 4 trumps and all side suits controlled max. I know they do not have that hand. So I am guessing a bit but I also know we have now agreed S and will bid 3NT to see if partner is able to cue bid C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I know 4♦ is the correct bid but I would probably just bid 6♠ at the table. Might prevent opps from finding the killing lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 There was no double of 2♥ and if you bid 4♦, helene is right, you will get a club lead against slam. I think just bid 6♠ and hope for the best. Sometimes too much science is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 There was no double of 2♥ and if you bid 4♦, helene is right, you will get a club lead against slam. I think just bid 6♠ and hope for the best. Sometimes too much science is a bad thing. Same here. Why do I want to give them a clue where their winners are? 6 should be a good contract opposite most superaccepts and 7 is out of the question. A club card isn't necessarily the key to slam anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I'll just bid 6♠ here. Even if we're out ♣AK, LHO might not find the lead. Basically, agree with ben B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I'll vote for science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I'll vote for science. Me too. My experience is that opps (far) more often than not finds the club lead if I just blast slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 science is good, 4♣ is also good, the sequence 4♣-4♥-4NT.... might induce a diamond lead. EDIT: 4♣ is stupid I just realised we are not declarer and are trying to get a lead directional double :S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 4D now , and 5D if partner signs off (I don't need a heart stop for slam). The questions for me are: Can we can make seven, for example: KQxxAxx(x)QxxAx(x) Can we make six: KQxxKxxxQxxAKx Can we only make five: KQxxAKQxQxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Does everyone really play 4D as just a cue bid here? I think it should show a second suit. Partner needs to be able to evaluate secondary honours and ruffing values; if 4D says merely "I have the ace or king of diamonds", how is he supposed to know that xxx-AQx in the minors is bad, and Qxx-Axx is good? To initiate an exchange of cue bids you can bid 3NT, which doesn't have much use in a natural sense and will often be more economical anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Does everyone really play 4D as just a cue bid here? I think it should show a second suit. Partner needs to be able to evaluate secondary honours and ruffing values; if 4D says merely "I have the ace or king of diamonds", how is he supposed to know that xxx-AQx in the minors is bad, and Qxx-Axx is good? To initiate an exchange of cue bids you can bid 3NT, which doesn't have much use in a natural sense and will often be more economical anyway.I play 4x as splinters, and 3NT as slamgoing without splinters that you want to show. What did the superaccept show? I'm used to a minimum hand with 4 trumps. Better hands would bid something else on the way. Opposite a minimum, I will guess to splinter 4♥ and then pass 4♠.Opposite a maximum, I will try 3NT and blackwood to slam over 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 I like 4D, I'm all for bashing when it looks right but I think this one is too much of a gamble, we're missing too many critical cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 ignore someone asked it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Does everyone really play 4D as just a cue bid here? I think it should show a second suit. Partner needs to be able to evaluate secondary honours and ruffing values; if 4D says merely "I have the ace or king of diamonds", how is he supposed to know that xxx-AQx in the minors is bad, and Qxx-Axx is good? To initiate an exchange of cue bids you can bid 3NT, which doesn't have much use in a natural sense and will often be more economical anyway. Nice idea but I think this Fantasyland. How would we bid with: Axxxxx xx Ax KQ. Im sure we'd all make the 'obvious' 4D cue looking for a heart control before RKC. Even if 4D is interpreted correctly, how is pard supposed to know xx and xxxx is OK but xxx isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 :) I love this hand, and I want to shoot it out at 6♠, and I would do this in a heartbeat if I had another high card (even a queen) so that the odds favor our having 12 tricks sooner or later. Let the opponents find the killing defense - fat chance. Alas, as it is, we may lose a diamond plus a heart or a club and that would be that. Surrounded by teammates who know what they are doing, I'm in favor of just making another slam try - like 4♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 IMO the bashers are overbidding this hand. Aside from the fact that a non-club lead is less critical with partner being declarer (in case he has ♣K) -- even if we are off the first two club tricks and avoid the club lead, there is no guarantee that we have 12 tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Does everyone really play 4D as just a cue bid here? I think it should show a second suit. Partner needs to be able to evaluate secondary honours and ruffing values; if 4D says merely "I have the ace or king of diamonds", how is he supposed to know that xxx-AQx in the minors is bad, and Qxx-Axx is good? To initiate an exchange of cue bids you can bid 3NT, which doesn't have much use in a natural sense and will often be more economical anyway. Nice idea but I think this Fantasyland. How would we bid with: Axxxxx xx Ax KQ. Im sure we'd all make the 'obvious' 4D cue looking for a heart control before RKC. Even if 4D is interpreted correctly, how is pard supposed to know xx and xxxx is OK but xxx isn't? What is fantasyland? If you play wj2005 f.e. it is more crutial to show second suits and/or shortnesses then just controls- For the reasons gnasher mentioned. And to use 3 NT in this sequence as artifical is no brand new toy either. YOu have heard of trump cuebids and/or serious 3 NT, so this is normal too. Btw: Your example is silly. I guess just a minority will bid 4 Diamond. Most will bid 4 Club. But you can have it all: bid 3 NT to ask for cuebids and 4 in a new suit to show a second suit. (Or a shortness if you prefer that.) This works reamrably well in your example and in the actual hand. And this is no fantasy island. There are people out there who play these methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi, As always, partnership agreement matters, is 3S the only bid, which shows a super accept,or did have partner other bids available as wellto show a super accept. You have a nice hand, but you dont know for sure, if they have 2 cashing Aces, 2 cashing clubs. So make some slam try, my preference would be 3NT as some kind of serious 3NT, forcing partnerto make a cuebid, which will help you to answerthe above mentioned questions. If you say, sience be dammed, in which case one mayask, why do you play super accepts anyway, you can of course bid 6S. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Nice idea but I think this Fantasyland. How would we bid with: Axxxxx xx Ax KQ. Im sure we'd all make the 'obvious' 4D cue looking for a heart control before RKC. Even if 4D is interpreted correctly, how is pard supposed to know xx and xxxx is OK but xxx isn't?It's not just an "idea". In the UK, whilst it's true that the cue-bid interpretation is the default, I'd expect a significant fraction of good pairs to play something else. I don't understand why you would find it difficult to evaluate xx, xxx and xxxx for slam purposes opposite known length. With a suit headed by AKQ, partner might well have initiated a cue-bidding sequence instead. Therefore xxx is bad, xxxx is a bit better, xx is the best of the three, and something containing an honour would be better than any of them. By the way, if I held Axxxxxx xx Ax KQ on this auction (I've added a trump to make it up to 13 cards), I wouldn't be planning to ask for keycards any time soon. How would that help me to distinguish between Kxxx AJx Kxx Axx and KQJx AJx Kxx Jxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 I know Hamman plays his super accepts seperated by "willing to play 3N" and "not willing to play 3N" ie 1N p 2D p 2N=I can play 3N, later 3N bids are natural. In the "cannot play 3N" version, 3N bids are artificial and responder can bid a second suit, in the "can play 3N" version responder has more room so can show his second suit without using artificial 3N. He only likes to bid 2N or 3H for super accepts to eliminate giving away information/Xs of art bids. I think kenrexford (?) also posted about the idea of seperating superaccepts this way, but I could be mistaken about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 4♦ Don't understand the 6♠ bidders.This hand is not a freak, and it is not difficult to bid it more slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchiu Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Which monkey voted for pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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