han Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 [hv=d=e&v=e&s=sk10xhaqxxdajxxxcx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] RHO opens 1S, your call? For the purpose of this thread, assume that you play a natural 1NT overcall and you don't have a 2-suited overcall to show 4-5 in the reds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I pass with regret If I had the same shape and a slightly stronger hand I'd bid 1NMove some major suit honors into the Diamond suit and I'd call 2♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 People used to make Michaels calls with hands like this. Even playing Overcall Structure, I have a 3♦ call available, but I'm not doing that either. I'm bidding 2♦. That ♠10 makes 3N too likely. As Wolff would say, "It's too dangerous to pass". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 1NT. Not often do I vote for an action that is both an overbid and a distortion, but I arrive at the call by the process of elimination. Pass: works when LHO bids 1N and RHO bids 2♣, now I can double happily. But most other sequences leave me either too exposed or scrambling to catch up. Double: I don't play ELC, and don't like ELC even when I am 4=6 in the reds. As it is, if it goes spade raise on my right and clubs by partner, at any level, I am going to want to make a descriptive puke. 2♦: the suit isn't good/long enough, and it rates to lose the heart suit too often 1NT: not good, but best. If LHO doubles, I run to 2♦. Meanwhile, we can certainly still find a 4=4 heart game, almost impossible after 2♦ and very tough after pass (altho easy after double) Going back to where I cam in, this 1N remains a distortion, but I don't think it is seriously underweight, with the AJxxx of diamonds and the K10x of spades, both factors worth a mild upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I bid 2♦. Not proud of it, but what can you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 1NT. Not often do I vote for an action that is both an overbid and a distortion, but I arrive at the call by the process of elimination. Pass: works when LHO bids 1N and RHO bids 2♣, now I can double happily. But most other sequences leave me either too exposed or scrambling to catch up. Double: I don't play ELC, and don't like ELC even when I am 4=6 in the reds. As it is, if it goes spade raise on my right and clubs by partner, at any level, I am going to want to make a descriptive puke. 2♦: the suit isn't good/long enough, and it rates to lose the heart suit too often 1NT: not good, but best. If LHO doubles, I run to 2♦. Meanwhile, we can certainly still find a 4=4 heart game, almost impossible after 2♦ and very tough after pass (altho easy after double) Going back to where I cam in, this 1N remains a distortion, but I don't think it is seriously underweight, with the AJxxx of diamonds and the K10x of spades, both factors worth a mild upgrade. Hi Mike I think that you under estimate the number of sequences where pass will work well. I'll be very happy if I pass and LHP makes a 2/1I'll be very happy if LHO bids 1NT and follows with a game invite.If the auction starts (1S) - P - (2S) - P - (P), I will probably be willing to risk calling 2N and then converting 3♣ to 3♦ I also think that you underestimate some of the down sides of an immediate 1NT. For example, you mention wanting to make a descriptive puke in the sequence (1S) - P - (2S) - 3C Me, I'm a lot more worried about (1S) - 1N - (2S) - 3C 1NT could work very well. I readily admit that I am much closer to calling 1N than I am to bidding 2♦. But I still prefer a chicken ***** pass... BTW... Three different answers in thefirst three posts. Definitely a good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 BTW... Three different answers in thefirst three posts. Definitely a good question. :) My novice partner had this hand yesterday, but without the spade 10. I added the ten to make it more interesting, so I'm glad to see it already pulled Mike to 1NT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 For example, you mention wanting to make a descriptive puke in the sequence (1S) - P - (2S) - 3C He mentioned the descriptive puke (I think we should keep that expression) after (1S)-Dbl-(2S)-3C. Very different and much more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I am a 2D bidder with these hands. Interestingly the amount of 2m overcalls I make now has gone way up from before because of an old post on BBF. I admit I didn't even consider 1N when I saw the hand, it is certainly worthy of thought but I think that it's biggest flaw is just that the hand is not really worth a 1N bid. The other flaws are more minor but I think its too much. In today's bridge I cannot see passing. Even if you get the dream sequence 1S p 1N p 2C X you have underbid your hand and could easily miss a game. Partner is just not going to play you for a hand this game and I would not feel comfortable at all passing 2H (or raising to 3H). You may get some other sequences that shut you out as well, or force you to underbid. LHO may respond with nothing, and even if he doesnt you could easily have a 22 HCP game or w/e on a hand like this. Double is just not for me with a stiff club, I'm not ready yet B) 2D gets across that you have values and diamonds. You can hopefully compete, you can still find hearts if you have game values, and you can still find 3N. Partner can still make a responsive X and get you to hearts. Partner can still bid 2H with some values and 5 hearts. Sure you risk playing 2D X or partner raising you with inadequate support in a pinch, but those things don't happen too often. I would even say I'm happy with 2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Pass, double (ELC) and 1NT are possible to me - in that descending order. I don't like to overcall on such a suit at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Pass, double (ELC) and 1NT are possible to me - in that descending order. I don't like to overcall on such a suit at all. If you play ELC then isn't double automatic? It wouldn't even be a problem. I really can't believe 1NT. The hand is just not good enough, regardless of shape. Pass I certainly believe, but I would bid 2♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Yes, double, elc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Make the hand a little stronger and 1NT becomes more attractive. In particular, being off-shape with short clubs is much less dangerous since most NT methods don't encourage partner to sign off in a long club suit. If you had a sufficiently strong hand (I added 2 jacks) but with round suits switched, ie KJTxAJxxxAQJx 1NT now carries the not-insignificant danger that partner will try to drop you in 2♥ via a transfer. Unless you're willing to pass that 2♦ bid (which works much better on a weak psych with long diamonds than a good hand), I'd be much less willing to go the NT overcall route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Pass Second choice 2D. Sorry mike, I really don't like 1NT as it is both off-shape and off-strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 At favourable 2♦ is certainly an option, so I'll bid that. At all white it would be a very dubious bid already, and vulnerable this is a 100% pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I like to play 1NT slightly stronger. Playing with a random Dutch partner I would bid 1NT, playing with someone from this forum I would pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Double playing ELC seems obvious. Justin, can you summarize or give a link to the old BBF article you read that caused you to overcall 2♦ more often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Justin, can you summarize or give a link to the old BBF article you read that caused you to overcall 2♦ more often? Too lazy/retarded to find link but quick summary: Opening bid with weakish suit posted, I THINK 3352 (could be wrong) 1H on right what do you do? jlall: pass obv too risky to bid n00bfred: These days you have to bid or you will be stolen from and miss lotsa games...NEWB.jlall: o rly? fred: yep, I bet you even your friend BOB HAMMAN would bid. jlall: okdealjlall: ok i lost the bet!!!!!!!!!! :) The main point of interest at the time to me as well was that DOUBLE was actually pretty reasonable and I would have never thought about it. Hamman also suggested X (maybe even said he would X?). I thought about it a lot and double was indeed a pretty good combination of safety and "getting in." Anyways it was a pretty insignificant thread probably but it really got me thinking about my old style of quite sound 2 level overcalls etc, and it has loosened up quite a bit recently. In the old days sure you can pass and not be too scared because if you have a game it will often go 1x p p and you will find it. Now thye have opened with nothing, responded with nothing, bid again with nothing because 1N was forcing, preferenced again with nothing, and you are blown out. This may seem unlikely but I know from experience of being the other side that it happens a lot against people who won't X or overcall agressively. That is one of the main reasons I now X with hands like 4333 13 counts and overcall 2D with hands like this. Not saying I'm right but I just think you need to get in whenever possible and with this hand it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Auto ELC dbl. Not playing that I would dbl anyway :rolleyes: Over pards 3♣ I'll bid 3NT. Over his 2♣... well good luck in the 5-1 fit, pard :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Pass. Don't play ELC. The hand is not good enough to overcall 1NT and the D suit not good enough for 2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Thanks for reminding me about that thread, Justin. It is http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=6062&st=0 - we hold 9xx AKJ KQ97x J8 over RHO's 1♠ opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Wow - it's interesting to see how my opinion has changed after a couple of years. I think taking a call with the old hand looks pretty obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Is ELC (Equal Level Conversion) not widely used by experts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Is ELC (Equal Level Conversion) not widely used by experts? I would say that >50 % of experts do not use this convention, but thats a guess. I would definitely say thats true in USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Is ELC (Equal Level Conversion) not widely used by experts? I would say that >50 % of experts do not use this convention, but thats a guess. I would definitely say thats true in USA. How come ELC isn't more widely used? Is it becaus eif teh opps jack up the bidding and Advancer (the pard of the Dbler) bids at the 3 level, and you correct from ♣ to ♦ you may be too high? Why not use ELC? What are its disadvantages? In your experience how ha sit not worked out ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.