very unusual 2NT

[matmat]

you have a random bad hand (2=3=3=5 quacky 5 count, or something like that)

 

you're dealer

 

 

P - (1♠) - P - (1NT);

P - (2♠) - 2NT

 

opps play a fairly standard 2/1 in this situation.

 

what would you take this bid to mean at the table playing with a good partner, but nothing is discussed?

 

what would you like to have this bid mean in a discussed partnership?

[mike777]

minors or two suited......

[matmat]

minors or two suited......

how two suited? and isn't minors equivalent to two suited?

[the hog]

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

[matmat]

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

what sort of values?

[the hog]

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

what sort of values?

A reasonable hand as she is forcing to the 3 level. I would expect the Cs to be too weak to overcall and ergo a pretty decent D suit.

[helene_t]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

[matmat]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

[whereagles]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

no. it's a horrible idea, in fact. Which is why overcaller must have some sort of excuse to make this bid, i.e., something like

 

Axxx

--

AKJx

JT9xx

 

eventually with minors the other way around.

[ArtK78]

Partner is pre-balancing. Partner expects the auction to be passed out at 2♠ and is balancing with a 2 suited hand, probably the minor suits.

[lilboyman]

Since they have a fit and partner did not bid unusual NT immediately, I expect 4/4 in the minors looking to push.

[matmat]

no. it's a horrible idea, in fact. Which is why overcaller must have some sort of excuse to make this bid, i.e., something like

 

Axxx

--

AKJx

JT9xx

 

eventually with minors the other way around.

That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me , or an uber-aggressive direct 2NT. why let LHO in on the bidding fun to show some values?

 

Partner is pre-balancing. Partner expects the auction to be passed out at 2♠ and is balancing with a 2 suited hand, probably the minor suits.

 

Pre-balancing makes no sense to me here. RHO rebid 2♠, but could still be quite strong, and LHO may still have game invitational values. To me it is much different than the more classical (1M)-P-(2M)-blah pre-balance.

[655321]

Prebalancing, for example a decent 2245 perhaps.

Your hand can happily bid 3♣ now.

[rbforster]

You might also have a very strong hand unsuitable for a NT overcall lacking a spade stopper and lacking 3♥s for a tolerable takeout double.

 

xxx

Ax

KQJx

AKQx

 

The was a MSC problem like this in the bridge world. While the majority bid a heavy 1NT over 1♠ despite lacking a stopper, a minority passed and later bid 2N for the minors over 2♠ later.

[whereagles]

(...) That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me

If you mean 1♦ OPENER, you're right. I didn't realize I this hand was dealer.

 

Still, this 2NT should be more or less the shape I said, perhaps with the space ace off. A rather fearsome/reckless overcall, but should be it.

[matmat]

(...) That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me

If you mean 1♦ OPENER, you're right. I didn't realize I this hand was dealer.

 

Still, this 2NT should be more or less the shape I said, perhaps with the space ace off. A rather fearsome/reckless overcall, but should be it.

yeah. sometimes (read: usually) i am stupid.. please not that i am not advocating making insufficient bids.

[matmat]

You might also have a very strong hand unsuitable for a NT overcall lacking a spade stopper and lacking 3♥s for a tolerable takeout double.

 

xxx

Ax

KQJx

AKQx

 

The was a MSC problem like this in the bridge world. While the majority bid a heavy 1NT over 1♠ despite lacking a stopper, a minority passed and later bid 2N for the minors over 2♠ later.

I am surprised more didn't double. seems like a double to me.

[matmat]

long story short.

 

p bid this way with 4=4=4=1 18 count with ♠AQxx; I am not sure whether they intended it as natural or two suited takeout, but it was certainly not on the list of hands i was expecting

[Codo]

She had no 1 NT bid after 1 Spade avaiable?

 

Anyway, I had taken it is a take out into two suits and bid 3 Club.

She had bid 3 Diamond and you had played there.

 

I think she should have bid 1 NT first round and failing to do so, passing now and forever and hope for a top score in defence.

[whereagles]

long story short.

 

p bid this way with 4=4=4=1 18 count with ♠AQxx;

hum.. wasn't pard supposed to be a passed hand? :)

[P_Marlowe]

#1 minors, 5-4 possible

#2 see 1

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

No, but the situation is a prebalancing situation.

Opener is limited, responder is limited, i.e. if

you have the shape to act, you have to do it

now, or you wont have another chance.

 

As it is, a 2NT bid in the bal. position could also

only 4-4, you have to decide for your own, if

you would make a prebal. 2NT bid with 4-4.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: I did not look at the vulnerability, and you did

not state it.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

Pre-balancing makes no sense to me here.  RHO rebid 2♠, but could still be quite strong, and LHO may still have game invitational values. To me it is much different than the more classical (1M)-P-(2M)-blah pre-balance.

What is more likely, that responder is 10-12 bal.

or has a 3 card limit raise, in which case they

have a 6-2 or 6-3 fit (and we have therefore

an 8 card trump fit as well), or that he holds the

weak version.

And regarding strength, the strength will be fairly

evenly distributed, opener will have on av. 13-14,

and responder 8, which makes it 22 to 18.

 

The only real risk is, that they have no fit, thats

why you should not step in with 4-4.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

Well it's not a bid I would make more than once per decade or so. I'm thinking of something like

 

-

Kx

QJxxx

QJxxxx

 

Maybe not the best example one could come up with. The point is that it should be a hand that has 3-level safety but for some systematic reason couldn't bid immediately. The reason most likely being that the hand has too little over-all strength.

[Codo]

Well it's not a bid I would make more than once per decade or so. I'm thinking of something like

 

-

Kx

QJxxx

QJxxxx

 

Maybe not the best example one could come up with. The point is that it should be a hand that has 3-level safety but for some systematic reason couldn't bid immediately. The reason most likely being that the hand has too little over-all strength.

Maybe the problem is that there is no good example?

 

A 6/5 hand with QJ combos at the top looks like a perfect hand for an unusual NT to me. And if you take away the King of hearts in your example, the hand is too weak to come in now. And as it is now. a direct 2 NT had worked, so I am not really convinced.