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Aces and spaces

han

By han
in Expert-Class Bridge

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What's your call.  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your call.

    • 3H, obviously we have to force to game.
      23
    • 3H, close but I can't stomach a non-forcing 2H.
      14
    • 3H when red at IMPs, else 2H.
      1
    • 2H, painful but probably right.
      7
    • 2H, this is clear.
      1
    • Abstain, just play Gazilli like a normal human being.
      6

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ArtK78

ArtK78

Posted
Posted

It depends on my methods.

 

This hand is not notrump oriented - all controls, no secondary cards to speak of. So 2NT is accurate if you are going to raise notrump.

 

However, in a suit contract, this hand is very good if there is a fit. And partner has not denied spades or hearts yet.

 

The hand is far too good for a 2♥ bid (nonforcing). But bidding 3♥ looks wrong with a flat hand and terrible suits.

 

In the methods that I use, 3♣ here shows a game forcing 5-4 or better two suiter (or a single suited spade hand forcing to game). That doesn't really solve the problem - whether this hand is worth a game bid.

 

We have already wrongsided any notrump contract due to partner's response. So I am going to bite the bullet and show my "game forcing" two suiter using whatever methods I have at my disposal.

 

I might be more inclined to bid 2NT at matchpoints. Vulnerability is not an issue.

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Echognome

Echognome

Posted
Posted
I'd rebid 2♦, transfer to ♥, intending to bid 3NT next.

I'd open a strong club and not have the problem at all. :D

 

Or I'd play Gazilli and have a way to show this hand.

 

etc etc

 

I think it's great that you have a method for these hands (and if you want to share your system notes more generally I'd be interested), but I think Han is interested in the judgment call in a more standard 2/1 system.

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skjaeran

skjaeran

Posted
Posted
I'd rebid 2♦, transfer to ♥, intending to bid 3NT next.

I'd open a strong club and not have the problem at all. :D

 

Or I'd play Gazilli and have a way to show this hand.

 

etc etc

 

I think it's great that you have a method for these hands (and if you want to share your system notes more generally I'd be interested), but I think Han is interested in the judgment call in a more standard 2/1 system.

Hehe, I know he is.

 

Then again, I do have another option. Whatever other methods I play here, I play 2NT as GF. So with non-regular partners I'd rebid 2NT (I generally know who play this as GF around here). 2NT GF is a very common treatment at the top level in Norway.

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kenrexford

kenrexford

Posted
Posted
I'd rebid 2♦, transfer to ♥, intending to bid 3NT next.

I'd open a strong club and not have the problem at all. :)

 

Or I'd play Gazilli and have a way to show this hand.

 

etc etc

 

I think it's great that you have a method for these hands (and if you want to share your system notes more generally I'd be interested), but I think Han is interested in the judgment call in a more standard 2/1 system.

Hehe, I know he is.

 

Then again, I do have another option. Whatever other methods I play here, I play 2NT as GF. So with non-regular partners I'd rebid 2NT (I generally know who play this as GF around here). 2NT GF is a very common treatment at the top level in Norway.

Same in central Ohio. :)

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kenrexford

kenrexford

Posted
Posted
2nt game force?

 

I am worried we do not have game and partner has responded lite.

 

Is 2nt unlimited game force?

 

I just play it 18-19 or great 17.

 

Second choice 3H.

When 2NT is GF, it is usually artificial, a soft relay to 3♣ (Responder has options). Jumps without 2NT are fit-dependent.

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hrothgar

hrothgar

Posted
Posted

I think that this is a very rough one playing 2/1.

 

I'm torn between two bids that I consider deeply flawed: 2♥ and 2N

 

2♥ is wrong about strength, however, I think that its less wrong than 3♥. 2♥ also has the benefit that it leaves 3♣ and 3♦ in play, while still providing partner with enough room to show a three card limit raise or bid a natural 2N. If partner does corrrect to 2♠, I have enough strength to make a same try. We will end up in 3N if partner has 2 Spades and a 8-9 count. We can intelligently decide between 3♠ and 4♠ is partner has three card support and less than a constructive raise.

 

2♥ could go very wrong if partner has a so-so hand with 4 card support. We'll rest in 2♥ when 4♥ will make easily. Furthermore, if partner rebids 3m, we won't be able to make an intelligent decision between pass and 3N. (3m shows a wide of range). 2NT will obviously work a lot better in these cases.

 

Personally, I think that its more likely that partner has a long minor rather than 4 card Heart support.

 

I'm going to rebid 2NT which I consider Natural Non Forcing without special agreement.

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joshs

joshs

Posted
Posted
I think that this is a very rough one playing 2/1.

 

I'm torn between two bids that I consider deeply flawed: 2♥ and 2N

 

2♥ is wrong about strength, however, I think that its less wrong than 3♥. 2♥ also has the benefit that it leaves 3♣ and 3♦ in play, while still providing partner with enough room to show a three card limit raise or bid a natural 2N. If partner does corrrect to 2♠, I have enough strength to make a same try. We will end up in 3N if partner has 2 Spades and a 8-9 count. We can intelligently decide between 3♠ and 4♠ is partner has three card support and less than a constructive raise.

 

2♥ could go very wrong if partner has a so-so hand with 4 card support. We'll rest in 2♥ when 4♥ will make easily. Furthermore, if partner rebids 3m, we won't be able to make an intelligent decision between pass and 3N. (3m shows a wide of range). 2NT will obviously work a lot better in these cases.

 

Personally, I think that its more likely that partner has a long minor rather than 4 card Heart support.

 

I'm going to rebid 2NT which I consider Natural Non Forcing without special agreement.

Maybe you missed a card?

Range of 2H=11-18ish

Range of 3H=19-21ish

 

It would be hard to convince me that a 19 count (and one with a 5 card suit and 3 aces) is closer to a 2H bid then a 3H bid.

 

lets do some tests:

a. is it in the range of 2H or 3H (answer: 3H)

b. is is it closer to the mean hand for the 2H or 3H bid? (mean for 2H is under 14, for 3H is slightly less than 20)

c. What is the probability of making game opposite hands that pass 2H?

 

Well considering that x Kxxxx Kxx xxxx should pass 2H and slam is very good, I think not being able to make game is a bit pessamistic.... You have play for game opposite a single K and a fit! And Kx of spades and out means that 3N is not hopeless and partner has more then that...

 

As to 2N non-forcing. if you don't think this hand should game force, isn't it at least worth 20? Isn't opening 2N (not my choice) better than opening 1S and rebidding a non-forcing 2N.

 

 

I know that 1S-1N-3H is always an awkward auction since there is little room below 3N but, bidding 2 instead really does not solve the bidding problems in any way.

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hrothgar

hrothgar

Posted
Posted
Maybe you missed a card?

Range of 2H=11-18ish

Range of 3H=19-21ish

 

It would be hard to convince me that a 19 count (and one with a 5 card suit and 3 aces) is closer to a 2H bid then a 3H bid.

 

lets do some tests:

a. is it in the range of 2H or 3H (answer: 3H)

b. is is it closer to the mean hand for the 2H or 3H bid? (mean for 2H is under 14, for 3H is slightly less than 20)

c. What is the probability of making game opposite hands that pass 2H?

Josh:

 

I don't think that you are framing the discussion correctly...

 

I agree that a 2♥ rebid is going to leave you very badly placed if responder has 4+ Hearts. Recall these words from my original post

 

2♥ could go very wrong if partner has a so-so hand with 4 card support. We'll rest in 2♥ when 4♥ will make easily

 

However, any cost benefit analysis needs to consider the frequency with which partner is going to have 4 card Heart support. I don't think its going to be all that frequent after a forcing NT response. I suspect that partner is going to table 1=3=5-4 or a 6+ minor or some such.

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