SchTsch Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 ♠x♥x♦Axxx♣Kxxxxxx IMPs, all NONVUL, RHO opens 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 4♣ Still 7-4, but a bad hand, so we preempt. 3♣ is not enough with this shape.5♣ is too much with no tricks.4♣ is ... just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 But typical 4♣ looks more like:xxxxxxKQJ10xxx Doesn't it? Is that close enough to your hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 The ODR of xxxxxxKQJxxxx is 7 (7 tricks on offense, 0 on defense), whereas that of xxAxxxKxxxxxx is around 6 (~7.5 on offense, 1.5 on defense). This argues for a 3♣ overcall. But then again, bridge isn't just technics, so 4♣ may be a good tactical bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambolino Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 pass, 3C at fav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3♣. I think this is slightly closer to pass than it is to 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3c for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3♣. The distribution is right for a higher preempt, but the suit is not. At this vul, the opps will be quite happy to double and take a plus score at higher levels. And it is very easy for the plus score to be 500 or 800. Not only that, many times when the plus score is only 100 or 300 it is because the opponents cannot make anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelm Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3C. I hate to preempt with outside aces but this time I think I good reasons to do so.... second choice would be Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 ♠x♥x♦Axxx♣Kxxxxxx IMPs, all NONVUL, RHO opens 1♥. 5c Pass close second choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 3♣. I like 7-4's, but this suit is too shabby for 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 What is that I see? Is that 11 minor suit cards, and a chance to jam the auction? 4♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 3C. With the x x xxxx KQJ10xxx hand I would definitely bid more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 But typical 4♣ looks more like:xxxxxxKQJ10xxx Doesn't it? Is that close enough to your hand?No, why does a typical 4♣ bid look like that?A 4♣ bid could be lots of things - an eighth club, for instance. Preempting is just balancing a tightrope. On the one hand, giving the opponents a free run. On the other hand, writing large numbers in the out column. You may reasonably decide that 4♣ lies on the 'writing large numbers' side of the tightrope, and that's fine. I prefer to think they still have room to bid, but so little room they may go wrong. (A 5♣ overcall, on the other hand, means you can write 5♣X on your scoresheet as soon as you have bid, I don't see any other upside.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 But typical 4♣ looks more like:xxxxxxKQJ10xxx Doesn't it? Is that close enough to your hand?No, why does a typical 4♣ bid look like that?A 4♣ bid could be lots of things - an eighth club, for instance. True. But 4♣ is a juicy preempt that excludes two things:- we won't play 3NT. If 3NT is possible contract 5♣ should be playable as an alternative. Therefore ♣ suit should not look like a swiss cheese if only 7 cards.- we encourage partner to sacrifice against their game. If they manage to get their last guess after 4♣ correctly we want partner to sacrifice with the appropriate card. Holding a side suit ace doesn't help partners decision and can lead to some phantom saves. The problem with 4/5♣ is that you take the board decision on yourself without much information, and you misinform your partner a bit. When partner is a passed hand 4♣ is much better than it is now. From my point of view, pass/4♣/5♣ are bids that decide the board early. And I don't like to make decisions without enough info. Whoever does will choose between these three bids. For me this hand is either 2♣ or 3♣ and I prefer 2♣ bid. Yes, with 7 points, why not?3NT? I'll try to avoid it.Defensive tricks? Check.Offensive tricks? Check.And when partner once in a lifetime bids 2♦ on my 2♣ bid I will strike gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASkolnick Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 OK. I'm a dummy. Why should I bid with this hand? I am sitting with 1.5 defensive tricks and no spots in my suit. If the get to a major, it could be splitting badly and I have defense. I could get lucky and partner have a great fit for me, but why can't he have 1 or less clubs? If you force me to bid, I would bid 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 OK. I'm a dummy. Why should I bid with this hand? I am sitting with 1.5 defensive tricks and no spots in my suit. If the get to a major, it could be splitting badly and I have defense. I could get lucky and partner have a great fit for me, but why can't he have 1 or less clubs? If you force me to bid, I would bid 3C. Fair enough. But if you pass all the time you'll miss every minor suit game you might have when partner, for example, brings xxxx QJx KQx Axx or a similar hand where they go off in 4 of a major and your 5♣ depends on the 2-1 trump split. That's why i said that pass/4♣/5♣ decide the board early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 4♣ is just too much with this hand IMO, 5♣ is ridiculous, 2♣ is a huge overbid. I'll go 3♣, the alternative being pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASkolnick Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 OK. So a hand where my partner is concentrated in the minors with a 12 count I miss game. Isn't it just as likely or more likely that my partner will have useless cards in the majors. If partner is short in one of the majors, he can always take an action with his hand if appropriate anyway. It only works if you know partner has working cards. He must have Aces in the majors and help in the minor. what do you want to do when partner has KJxx QJxx Kxxx x Not sure you like your 5C now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Skol, what are you talking about? Presumably partner is allowed to look at her hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I've had mostly success with preempting 4m whenever I have 11 minor cards which aren't of ridiculously poor quality. This falls in that camp, so I'm a 4♣ bidder. I'll probably stop doing this when I go for 1400 at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I would bid 4♣. I love to preempt with shortness in both majors (the odds that opponents have a major suit game are pretty good, which adds safety). I admit this is on the sick side of 4♣, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I like 4♣, they are just so likely to go to either major over that. I will only end up in 5 opposite support, which is when I lose the dangerous aspect of 4♣, that being the bad suit. LOL I see I voted for 3♣ earlier. Terrorists hacked my login :) I would seriously bid 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 4C , 3C , 2C , 5C , passfrom best to worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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