Defense against Precision!

[jillybean]

I am playing in a team match tomorrow night against a pair who play Precision.

My partner and I have no agreements on how to handle Precision 1♣ or other unusual Precision openings. In fact I dont know of the other openings.

 

Can anyone give me a brief explanation of Precision openings and some SIMPLE defenses?

 

Thanks

[rogerclee]

I think there are four basic points to know about precision openings that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

1) 1♥/1♠ openings by them are limited, the most common range being 11-15. Ask their range; it is often useful during the play to know what cards the opener is likely to have.

 

2) If they open 1♦ and rebid 1NT, ask what their opening NT range is. For example, if they play 1♦ = 11-15HCP and their NT range is 14-16, then they show 11-13 HCP.

 

3) Is their 1♦ opening as short as 2 or as short as 0 cards? You do not really need a defense to a 1♦ opening, but some people like to play a 2♦ overcall as natural, and some like to play Michaels. I think it is up to you what you like to play. If you want to play 2♦ natural, consider either playing 2♥ Michaels or just dropping Michaels altogether.

 

4) 1♣ encompasses all (or almost all) strong hands, and is usually 16+ or 17+ HCP and artificial. When you are NV, especially when you are NV and they are Vul, you want to give them problems in the auction. There are a couple of things that people play with varying degrees of how good they are: Suction, Psycho-Suction (when NV, this is my preferred agreement), Mathe (the most natural, my preferred agreement when Vul), CRASH (I think this is horrible), and just natural. It is important to preempt somewhat aggressively when they open a strong club in order to make them guess. If you are playing against a relatively weak pair playing strong club, it is easy to push them around.

 

Another thing: what is their NT range? If they play a weak NT, it is important to discuss your defense to a weak NT (I like to treat 13-15 as strong), particularly what your doubles mean after you make a penalty double and they start running.

[awm]

There are several different versions. Here's something close to modern standard precision:

 

1♣ = 16+ any distribution, artificial and forcing

1♦ = 11-15 hcp, either a hand with diamonds or a balanced hand too weak for 1NT

1M = five card majors, 11-15 hcp

1NT = 14-16 hcp balanced

2♣ = 6+♣, or 5♣ and a 4cM; 11-15 hcp

2♦ = 4414 or 4405 (short in diamonds); 11-15 hcp

2M = normal weak two bid

2NT = some play as natural strong NT, some as weak with both minors

Higher = fairly normal preempts

 

Some of the differences you might see:

 

(1) Some play 2♦ as including 4315 and 3415, so that 2♣ promises six cards in the suit.

(2) Some change the 1NT opening to some other range, or vary it based on vulnerability.

(3) Some will open lighter than others, especially in the majors.

 

As to defending against this stuff, I recommend:

 

You don't need to do anything special against the 1M bids. I also recommend treating 1♦ the same as you would a natural 1♦, even though it could potentially be two cards.

 

If the 1NT opening is 14-16, you can pretty much do the same as you would against any strong notrump. If they play weaker notrumps you may want to have a defense that includes a penalty double if you don't normally play one. I like Landy (2♣=majors, X=penalty, else NAT) myself.

 

Against 2♣, pretty much bid as you would over a weak two. Keep in mind that overcalls in the majors will be at the two-level and thus shouldn't be the type of trash that you might bid on at the one-level.

 

Over 2♦, I recommend using double to show a generally good hand and desire to penalize. Often these three-suited hand types don't play so well for opponents. Other bids should be natural.

 

The only really tricky thing to defend is 1♣. There are many defenses available, all of which presumably have some merit. Perhaps the more important thing than what defense you play, is figuring out which hands to bid with. I recommend bidding about half a level more than you ordinarily would, if you are non-vulnerable. So for example, a good four-card suit is okay at the one level, a good five-card suit is okay at the two-level, and so forth. Don't bid at the two-level on trashy five-card suits though. Some people just bid on total garbage, which is wrong because you can go for a number and because bidding at the one-level doesn't really inconvenience the opening side unless partner can raise or find a better lead because of it. On the other hand it pays to be a little bit more aggressive than you would over a normal opening, because opponents will have more trouble figuring out what they have.

 

As for conventional defenses, a simple one is to play that notrump bids show the minors and double shows both majors. The point is that overcalling a natural 1NT is usually suicide against the strong club bid (very easy to get doubled for a number) so you may as well use it as something artificial. This defense is called Mathe. There are other more complicated defenses out there that may have merits, but this one is easy. Again, it's more important to know which hands you bid with and how high than to play a lot of artificial methods. You should also discuss what you play after 1♣-P-some bid; I recommend that notrump bids remain for the two lowest suits they have not shown (so 1♣-P-1♥-1NT is minors, 1♣-P-1♦-1NT is minors because one diamond is artificial) and double is for the two highest suits they haven't shown (so 1♣-P-1♥-X is spades and diamonds, 1♣-P-1♦-X is still majors).

[Apollo81]

If you are not vul vs vulnerable and they open 1♣, it is your turn to bid. Especially bid spades if you can. Remember to cut partner some slack when he/she bids at favorable over a strong club.

[blackshoe]

Mathé is an easy defense: X for the majors, 1NT for the minors over either 1♣ or the 1♦ response.

 

There's Truscott: suit bids show that suit and the next higher, jumps in suits are preemptive, X shows the suit artificially bid (1♣ opening or 1♦ response) and the other suit of the same shape, 1NT shows the other-shape suits.

 

Jerry Helms recommends Mathé, plus Hello at the two level (a variant of Cappelletti, using transfers) and natural l level bids.

 

Bottom line is, especially at favorable vulnerability, get in there and mess 'em up. :)

[han]

You don't need special conventions against a strong club. Double for the majors and NT for the minors is fine.

 

What's much more important is that after a 1C opener you should try to be very aggressive. Also when vulnerable (although of course you'd bid more aggressively when not vulnerable).

 

If they play 2D showing a 3-suiter short in diamonds then you should agree what double means. Either a balanced hand or diamonds is fine, just agree on something.

 

If their 1D opening is short then I'd recommend that you treat it just like a normal 1D opener. This may not be optimal but it will be easiest for you.

 

Good luck, let us know how it went!

[TylerE]

An important point here is that you should on playing strength and distribution rather than HCP. I've got a long list of 500, 800, and 1100's (and even a few 1400s) from those who thought that an opening hand entitled them to enter into my power auction.

[the hog]

Awm has described P open bids. Imo a good simple defence is Mosher - everything natural. You can add X for the Ms and 1NT for the ms.

This is not the best defence, (canape overcalls,but that is not a topic for BI forums), however it has the virtue of simplicity.

[pclayton]

Against a Precision 2♦, a double should be takeout of clubs.

[Cascade]

Over the strong club I would just play Double for the majors and 1NT for the minors as others have suggested.

 

Again as others have noted you should bid fairly freely. A mistake some players make against a precision club is to bow down to the 16+ points and sit quietly.

 

Vulnerable I am reasonably sound with my overcalls. Not vulnerable especially favourable very agressive. Don't underestimate the value of a one-level overcall. The opponents have started off with an artificial bid and you can easily remove much of their bidding space starting with a one-level overcall. In response the opponents often are forced to pass or make an artificial double with marginal values. Therefore if partner can raise your overcall you can take up two or three levels of bidding before the opponents get a suit in when partner can raise to the two or three-level.

 

Vulnerable I am a little more careful as while there is still a benefit from overcalling there is also a cost - you give the opponents information. When you are vulnerable you are less likely to have a save so this information is more likely to be valuable to the opponents.

 

One other thing that has not been mentioned. Occasionally after the opponents open 1♣ strong the hand actually belongs to your side. You will need to agree how you can make a good raise of partner's overcall. Normally you will want to play all of your raises as pre-emptive. As a consequence we have agreed to play a 2♣ response shows a good artificial raise (sort of like a cue-raise) when partner overcalls a major or doubles 1♣ to show both majors.

 

Most other bids you can do the normal sort of things.

 

Treat 1♥/♠ like you do a standard american 1♥/♠.

 

While it might be best to have a different system over different NT ranges in practice it is simpler on your mind to just play the same defense whatever the range - Cappelletti or DONT or Landy or whatever you are used to.

 

Treat a 2♣ opening like a standard 1♣ opening.

 

Check what they play 2♦ as there are some variations. Over the standard sort of 3-suited 2♦ I would double to show some values and make subsequent doubles for takeout.

 

Over 1♦ make sure you agree if and how you can bid diamonds. (1♦) 2♦ Natural or Michaels; (1♦) 1♥ (Pass) 2♦? is this a cue-raise or natural; similarly after a takeout double (1♦) Dbl (Pass) 2♦ Natural or cue. I would definitely play 2♦ after partner's overcall of takeout double as a cue-bid and not natural.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 Get in at the 2 level, test their defencive agreements

 

#2 A simple defence against their 1C opener would be

to use the defence you play against a strong NT

opener, just pretend they have opened 1NT and

bid accordingly.

=> Suits on the 1 level should show good suits

and good hands

 

#3 Depending on the specific style of precision your

opponents may play, you can treat the 1D opener

as natural

Just ask them how often an 1D opener contains

at least 3 cards

If the frequence is above 90%, e.g. a 1D opener

contains less than 3 cards only in case of a 4441

distribution, treat the 1D opener as natural

If it is artificial, use the same as you use against 1C,

i.e. assume they have opened 1NT and bit accordingly,

with the difference that your bids should now be

constructive (more precise: use your defence against

a weak NT opener).

 

#4 Contrary to standard the raise of 1M to 4M can be

made on a wide range of hands

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[lexlogan]

I like to be able to show all two-suiters against their 1C opening or artificial 1D response, so:

Double = spades and another suit. 4-4 is fine if not vulnerable; 4-5 or 5-4 if vulnerable. Partner bids notrump or doubles the next bid to ask for the second suit.

1D = hearts and a minor. Partner bids NT or doubles to ask for the minor.

1NT = both minors, 4-5 or 5-4 not vulnerable, 5-5 vulnerable recommended.

 

With minimum shape, make these bids with at least 6 points in the two suits (more or less weak two strength.)

 

Over their artificial 1D response, double is still spades and another suit, 1NT becomes hearts and a minor (partner doubles or bids notrump to ask for the minor, over a pass can bid 2C as "pass or correct"), 2NT shows the minors (5-5, with at least one good suit if vulnerable.)

 

All suit bids except 1D are natural, one suited.

 

The "pyramid" scheme lets partner know about the all-important spade suit quickly, allowing him to apply maximum pressure when he has 4+ support.

[Gerben42]

IMPORTANT STUFF MISSING FROM OTHER POSTS

 

Discuss what you do after they open 1♣, partner passes and responder bids.

 

KEEP IT SIMPLE! Always try to stay in situations where you know what your side is doing.

 

1♣ p 1♦: This is the negative response. Here you also must be agressive, and probably you use the same defense as if they opened (i.e. Dbl = majors, 1NT = minors).

 

If they bid

 

1♣ p 1M (natural), this is GAME FORCING. So a natural 1NT overcall does not make sense, so you can play unusual NT one level lower.

 

1♣ p 1NT (natural). Assume they have opened a strong NT.

 

Also if they open 1♦ could be short, and the other opponent bids a suit, there is a nice trick: Forget about the ♦ and treat the new suit as opponents's suit.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

1♦ (Pass) 1♠

 

Now 2♦ is natural and 2♠ is a cuebid (Michaels if you play that).

[hrothgar]

One quick comment:

 

I LOVE opponent who use

 

X = Majors

1N = Minors

 

over my strong club opening

 

I honestly believe that this defense is worse than useless against a good pair with well designed methods.

 

My own recommendation is to bid agrressively and use natural bids to show your suits.

 

If you have Spades, bid 1S or 2S or 3S or some number of Spades.

In much the same vein, if you have Heart, bid Hearts...

[gwnn]

One quick comment:

 

I LOVE opponent who use

 

X = Majors

1N = Minors

 

over my strong club opening

 

I honestly believe that this defense is worse than useless against a good pair with well designed methods.

 

My own recommendation is to bid agrressively and use natural bids to show your suits.

 

If you have Spades, bid 1S or 2S or 3S or some number of Spades.

In much the same vein, if you have Heart, bid Hearts...

so what do you think 1NT should show?

[hrothgar]

One quick comment:

 

I LOVE opponent who use

 

X = Majors

1N = Minors

 

over my strong club opening

 

I honestly believe that this defense is worse than useless against a good pair with well designed methods.

 

My own recommendation is to bid agrressively and use natural bids to show your suits.

 

If you have Spades, bid 1S or 2S or 3S or some number of Spades.

In much the same vein, if you have Heart, bid Hearts...

so what do you think 1NT should show?

My preferred defense to strong club openings is available at

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=12333&hl=

 

about halfway down the page.

 

I didn't recommend this to Kathryn because I suspect that its way more complicated than she would like.

 

This defense does use X to show both majors, however, responder has a number of other options availble. (For example, a 3♥ overcall also shows both majors)

 

I prefer to use 1NT to show a two suited hand with Spades and either minor.

[firmit]

If you have some bid showing the majors, and partner actually got a limit-raise or better, what do you do? 2nt invit+ with a major? If so - any structure? And if you tend to get in with light values - your response structure should show this right? Any thoughts?

[helene_t]

Agree with Han. Keep it simple. There is no need for conventional defense against Precision.

 

Do ask, before the opening lead, dummy to explain exactly what he knows about declarers hand. You may hear some surprising news. For example, after

1♦-1M

2♣

it could be that dummy knows that declarer has at least as many clubs as diamonds. Then again, it might not, depending on which Precision style they play.

 

Make sure that you and p understand the extent of each others aggressiveness. My experience on BBO is that when I open 1♣, often LHO will overcall very aggressively, while RHO will then raise equally aggressively based on the assumption of a normal overcall. Then they go for 1100 on a partscore board.

[Gerben42]

The most important thing is:

 

DON'T WORRY TOO MUCH!

 

Just because they play a different bidding system doesn't mean they are better at bidding than you. Let the system work for you! If they open 1♠ for example you know much more about declarer's HCP then when YOU open 1♠. You can use this in defense.

 

Good luck :)

[Trinidad]

I fully agree with Gerben's two main statements:

 

o Keep it simple

o Don't worry too much

 

How do you use these statements to devise a defense against a strong 1♣ opening?

 

To start with, all bids in a suit at the one level are natural. (New suits are forcing 1 round, 2NT is a good raise, other raises are making noise.)

Then, bids at the two level have the same meaning as they would have if the opponents had opened a strong no trump.

 

Now you look at the system that that will give you. (That obviously depends on your defense against 1NT.) Is there a handtype that should bid but that you can't bid? (I can, for example, imagine a hand with both minors.) Then you use 1NT for that handtype.

 

This has the advantage that you don't have to prepare a lot.

 

Rik

 

=================================================

 

My prefered defense vs a strong 1♣:

- takes away bidding room while still relatively safe.

- (except for one), all bids are non forcing. Responder cannot sit back with a good hand and see what develops.

 

I play DONT at the two level, 1NT shows a minor (equivalent to a Multi 2♦ opening) and 1M is natural

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies.

We did not win but had a good evening and my p and I played well. We decided to keep it simple play X, 1nt over 1♣ and keep (1♦) 2♦ as Michaels, less to forget. Our best set was against the Precision players and not as difficult as I had thought it would be, in fact it was fun. :)