pbleighton Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 My pd and I are in the process of finding the limits of light opening sytems permissable under the GCC (ACBL). We started out playing SA, then went to SA with Rule Of 19 openings and 11-14 NT, then added 5 card weak twos and 6 card 3 bids (NV), and are currently playing a (distorted) version of The Science (4 cM < 14 hcp, 5+cM 14+, majors first < 14, open decent 5332 10 counts 1M). At every step of the way we find more aggressive bidding to be fun, challenging, and quite effective, at least against the club level players we play (and are). We don't mid anti-field results at all, as long as the net is plus - or to tell you the truth, even if it were flat, given that it's more fun to bid more frequently :D We have determined that our next step will be a relatively simple, GCC legal strong club system (no relays or transfer responses), with a 15 point club, and opening 9(8)-14 points, at least in the majors. We are willing, at least in theory, to tolerate losses in the club opening, in order to open very light effectively. I will outline some thoughts I have had. 4 card majors and 5 card majors are both on the table, as are NT range and response structures. In all that follows, 9-14 means decent 9s (good 5332s, OK 54s, almost any 6 card suit), and 8s with decent 6 card suits, 5440s or 55s. Possible Opening Bid Structures Light Precision #11D - 9-14, 4+ cards, (4441) or 4D5C if only 41M - 9-14, 5+ cards1NT - 11-14 (12-14 and pass some balanced 11 counts?)2C - 9-14, 6 card or 5C4M, decent club suit when opening 5C4M below 122D - 10-14, Precision Light Precision #21D - 10-14 (GCC), 2+ cards1M - 9-14, 5+ cards1NT - 11-142C - 9-14, 6 card or 5C4M, decent club suit when opening 5C4M below 122D - 10-14, Precision, includes (43)15 shapes Light Precision #31D - 10-14 (GCC), 0+ cards1M - 9-14, 5+ cards1NT - 11-142C - 9-14, 6 card or 5C4M, decent club suit when opening 5C4M below 122D - weak 4cM #11D - 9-14, 4+ cards, (4441) or 4D5C if only 41M - 9-14, 4+ cards, (4441) or 4D5C if only 41NT - 11-14 (12-14 and pass a few 11 counts?)2C - 9-14, 6+ cards2D - weak 4cM #21D - 9-14, 4+ cards, (4441) or 4D5C if only 41M - 9-14, 4+ cards, may be 4432 or 4333 down to 10 if OK1NT - 12-14 (alternate - 12-15 to take flat 15s out of 1C)2C - 9-14, 6+ cards2D - weak 4cM #31D - 10-14 (GCC), 2+ cards1M - 9-14, 4+ cards, may be 4333 11, 4432 down to 10 if OK1NT - 15-17, 14-17, 13-16, etc, to take more hands out of 1C2C - 9-14, 6+ cards2D - weak "5 card eveything"1D - 9-14, 5+ cards1M - 9-14, 5+ cards1NT - 11-142C - 9-14, 5+ cards2D - weak4441s opened either 1NT (not sure if it's GCC legal) or the mini-Roman Preference of the above, or an alternative? I am currently leaning towards 4cM #1. Issues Opening 4432 or 4333 10 counts - I notice neither Magic Diamond nor Moscito opens these shapes below their NT range. Do you have experience doing this? Response structure for 4cM - either 2/1 F1 (12 hcp), or The Science style semi-forcing 1M-NT with 2/1 GF = 14 hcp. The Science style works fine now, but going down to decent 9 point openers (from decent 10) means 14 hcp for 2/1 vs 13, and fewer GF auctions in teh 10-14 range. The other issue is true 4 card majors vs what we play (5+ cards if > 13 hcp, so you can pass 1NT if you opened with 4 cards), make the semi-forcing NT a little problematical. Preference, or an alternative? I am currently leaning towards 2/1 F1. Response structure for 5cM - either 2/1 F1 (12 hcp), 2/1 GF (standard, except GF = 14 hcp), or the following: 2/1 10-14 NF, 5+ cards (6+ if bottom of the range). 1M-1NT is weak, invitational not suitable for 2/1, or GF where the final contract is not necessarily in the bid suit. Weak hands would pass or prefer, invitational hands would bid 2NT or raise a bid suit to 3, and GF would do anything else. Preference, or an alternative? I like the last option, but am not sure how well it wiould do without a relay system. In the little testing I've done it seems pretty good. Minimum strength for weak responses - thinking of 6 or 7 points, with the option to pass misfits up to 9 hcp. I could set it higher, and then the opener could invite with a max, but that seems counterproductive. Thoughts? Should a 9 point opener always have at least 5 cards in the bid suit? How good should a 5332 be to open with 9? I appreciate any input. I love screwing around with this stuff, it is as interesting as playing, maybe more so. Thanks to all for the education you've given me over the last year or so. I don't hold any of you responsible for the silliness of my system ideas :huh: Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Hi Peter I took the same journey a few years ago. After a LOT of experimentation, I concluded that it was infeasible to play light opening styles at the GCC level. The GCC gives you a lot of flexibility with respect to opening strength and style. Unfortunately, it is also extremely limiting with respect to response structure. You can't play Transfer responseYou can't play relays In turn, this cripples the entire approach. If you play 2/1 GF, you're 2/1's will be few and far between. Your 1NT will be severely overload. Here's a few specific comments: >Opening 4432 or 4333 10 counts - I notice neither >Magic Diamond nor Moscito opens these shapes >below their NT range. Do you have experience doing this? The MOSCITO variant that I play opens 4432 at the 2 level. AT54Q43K862J5 Is a fine 2D opening bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesSer Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Hi Peter! You might be interested in having a look at Magic Diamond. A very fun system that is based around 8-11 4+ Major openings that might contain a longer minor. http://w1.836.telia.com/~u83607584/carrot/...ght%201.0.1.pdf Magic Diamond Light (a simplified version of Magic Diamond)http://w1.836.telia.com/~u83607584/carrot/Magic_25.pdf Magic Diamond v2.5 Unfortunantly, the system doesn't really give you a chance to use your judgement and it overloads the 1C-structure a bit. But, it's really fun to play which is a good reason for me to keep playing it :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted February 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 MesSer writes:"You might be interested in having a look at Magic Diamond. A very fun system that is based around 8-11 4+ Major openings that might contain a longer minor. " Thanks! I'm aware of MD. It looks good, but isn't GCC legal because of transfer responses. The response structure issue which Richard raises is exactly what I am trying to finesse. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 In this style I'd play 1NT as 10-12 / 13-15 and open the other range 1D to take the balanced 15 counts out of your 15+ 1C. Otherwise, go right ahead I'd say! I don't agree with Messer's claim that Magic Diamond does not allow for judgement. There is a lot of judgement involved and a lot of "shooting the final contract" like 1S - 4S etc. My guidelines for the Magic Diamond structure are. An even shorter description can be found athttp://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~di...dge/magicd.html which is enough to get a feel of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesSer Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 I was talking more about the situation where you hold a bad 4-card major and a good 5-card minor. You can't systematicaly open this one in a good way. This is the same for other sequences as well. But, on the other hand you put a lot of pressure on opponents in 1M-2M sequences. The version you showed up with seems good though. And it's a shame that the creators of the system hasn't updated their system notes during the last 5 years or so :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted February 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Gerben writes"In this style I'd play 1NT as 10-12 / 13-15 and open the other range 1D to take the balanced 15 counts out of your 15+ 1C. Otherwise, go right ahead I'd say!" Would you open 1D with 2+ if playing 13-15, and pass 3334 and (233)5 counts under 13? How low would you open 4432/4333 hands outside of 1NT? Would you use 2/1 F1 with 12+ hcp, or something (GCC legal) different? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 While it is legal to open NT with a singleton as an excercise of bridge judgement, it is illegal to agree to do it as a matter of system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 While it is legal to open NT with a singleton as an excercise of bridge judgement, it is illegal to agree to do it as a matter of system. Perfectly legal in Britain as I recall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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