pclayton Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Matt and I had an expensive misunderstanding (I take 100% credit btw) in a tg tonight. Here's a sequence: (1♠) pass (2♠) 3♦(pass) 3♠ (pass)..? Question 1. Does 3♠ promise a fit? Tolerance? neither? Question 2A. What is 4♣ by the 3♦ bidder?.............2B. What is 4♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I don't think 3S promises a fit but it will usually have one since it doesn't seem to have a good 5 card suit (pass over 1S with a good hand), and doesn't seem to have a spade stopper (no 3N over 3D). I suppose something like xxx KQx Ax Axxxx is possible or possibly xxx KQxx Ax QJxx if you don't make t/o Xs with this hand type. It seems like all other hand types will have a diamond fit. 4H over 3S is obviously natural, trying to find a 4-4 fit. 4C is obviously natural, trying to find a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Without discussion I had taken 4 of a new suit as a control with a strong hand in the context of the bidding so far.To say: 3 Spade normaly has a Diamond fit and 4 ♣/♥ are looking for another place to play sounds wrong. I think it is either or and that 3 Spade normaly establishs a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 what's up with all these "problems" recently? 4H and 4C are both natural.3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 3S would be a pleasant surprise for me, showing an invitational raise in diamonds. Four hearts is an alternative contract, and four clubs is natural, a sort of a long suit game try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 3♠ shows tolerance. I cannot imagine any hand without tolerance that would not act over 1♠ and would bid, but not bid 3NT over 3♦. 4♣/♥ are natural and NF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 what's up with all these "problems" recently? 4H and 4C are both natural.3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one). Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 1. Surely looking for 4-4H is in. Surely D-fit in. Surely S-control knowing what next is in. 2. 4H =Found 4-4H. 4C =general come on - a counter cue asking 'what you doing over there?' I got good stuff as no 4D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 what's up with all these "problems" recently? 4H and 4C are both natural.3S shows a diamond fit (note that in this sequence Hx is a fit, though I would usually expect a third one). I agree. The 3♠ bidder cannot have a great hand from his failure to bid in direct seat over 1♠ and his failure to bid 3NT now. So he must have a fit. All subsequent bids are natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Well, I don't think you can answer B without a firm agreement on A. If 3♠ does not promise a fit, then 4♣ and 4♥ should be natural. That's pretty obvious to me If 3♠ promised a fit, then I think its more dubious that 4♣ is natural and suggesting an alternate strain. If 2N is two places to play over 2♠ (isn't that relevant here?), it also discounts this possibility. I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 #1 it promises at least tolerance, after all, what does he want to do if 4D comes back and it gets xed?#2 a 2nd suit, should show something like 6-4, and deny a spade stopper With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Even if 3♠ promises a 3-card fit and 2N is available for two-suiters, 4♣ is still natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences. Agree with whom? Do we get the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I do agree that 3♠ doesn't promise a fit. Otherwise you are stuck with a bid holding a very generic hand like: ♠xxxx ♥AKxx ♦Kx ♣Axx. But this sequence is one of the rare cases where a cue bid in response to an overcall does not promise a fit for partner, assuming you play transfer advances in many sequences. Agree with whom? Do we get the hand. No you don't get the hand. It was a total disaster, quite possibly the worst thing I've ever perpetuated at the table in the last year. I'm agreeing with everyone that states 3♠ does not promise a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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