1H-1NT forcing-2NT

[paulhar]

Hi - I had always played 1H-1NT-2NT as similar strength to 1H-1S-2NT whether 1NT is forcing or not (18-19 if I am playing 15-17 1NT openers) but I have recently seen two books written by different authors which suggest a lower range.

 

For the poll, I am assuming that 1NT is forcing; however if a nonforcing 1NT response would make your answer different, please explain.

[helene_t]

My supervisor when I was in bridge teacher training insisted on playing this as 16-17, which I found impractical for beginners that need as much symmetry as possible in the bidding system. I think the Dutch teaching methods differ in this respect with Biedermeijer saying 18-19 and Westra 16-17.

 

I think a 16-17 would either have opened 1NT, or can bid a new suit at the 2-level.

 

Wijma/Brulleman play that after 2NT, 3m is nonforcing but 3♥ is forcing when the opening suit was spades. Wonder if some play Woolf here.

[Echognome]

Depends so much on what you open with 5♥332 in your NT range. For me, it's an automatic 1NT opening, so 2NT rebid is from 1 pt above NT range to 19 (17-19 in one p'ship, 18-19 in another).

[gwnn]

What ekonom said.

[inquiry]

For me it can not show a balanced 15-17 with a five card major because i open that 1NT (well in many partnerships, my 1NT is 14-16). So if forced to vote on a standard here, i would vote for the 18-19 hcp option one. But I happen to know what is "standard" is not very standard.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

Good 16-18.

 

Assuming 1 NT is forcing, but to a certain degree,

it does matter, if you play constructive raises.

Because if you do, the 1NT may be based on a

bal. hand with fit and 4HCP.

=> Opener should not hold a min. 15-17 NT opener,

but requiring 18-19 is not necessary as well.

 

Of course some play, that a 2C / 2D response by opener

as artificial (e.g. Gazilli (?!)), and solve your problem, but

create others.

 

............................................................................

 

If 1NT is nonforcing, the above mentioned issue does not

exist, so 15-17 is enough.

But lots of people play, that a 2C / 2D can be based on a 3

carder, and if you play this, you dont need 2 NT to show

15-17.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Apollo81]

17-19-

[cherdano]

With a German or French partner: 15-17. With anyone else: 18-19. May upgrade a 17-count with a nice heart suit, but won't be a 14-count with 6 hearts.

[awm]

It's 18-19. With less you either open 1NT, or rebid in a minor planning to try 2NT over partner's correction to 2M.

 

I tend to upgrade about a point for a five card suit in most cases, so maybe 17-18 hcp for me anyway... but 18-19 total points however you evaluate seems right.

[pclayton]

It's 18-19. With less you either open 1NT, or rebid in a minor planning to try 2NT over partner's correction to 2M.

 

I tend to upgrade about a point for a five card suit in most cases, so maybe 17-18 hcp for me anyway... but 18-19 total points however you evaluate seems right.

Agree with this. Opening 1N with a 5M332 isn't 100% for me, its rather qualitative, so I need a way to show a 15-17 if pard responds 1N to 1M.

[benlessard]

What I think is standard for those who are not fond to open 1Nt with bal 5M is

 

With 12-14 (maybe bad 15)

1H---1Nt----2C----2H-----pass

 

with 15 open 1nt.

 

 

1H----1NT----2C/2D----2H------2Nt = 16-17

 

1H----1Nt-----2Nt 18-19

 

 

1S-----1Nt------2C/2D----2S-----pass (12-bad15)

 

With 15 open 1NT

 

1S----1Nt-----2m-------2S--------2Nt (16-17)

 

1S----1Nt-----2Nt (18-19)

[Gerben42]

Points schmoints. It's "If you are not minimum I want to play 3NT", i.e. invitational. Maybe balanced up to 18, or 5422 and a bit less and stoppers.

 

Whatever you agree, 15 HCP is not nearly enough for this bid unless you like going down. A good 16 to 18 if you want to pin me down on points.

 

So I voted for 16 - 18 total points.

 

How do you play 1♦ 1N 2N? Not also invitational?

[firmit]

As a side note, it has been discussed a conventional meaning for 2NT:

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=17731&hl=

[Codo]

With a German or French partner: 15-17. With anyone else: 18-19. May upgrade a 17-count with a nice heart suit, but won't be a 14-count with 6 hearts.

I doubt this.

I am quite sure that the offical SEF /Forum D says that you must rebid a 3 card minor with 15-17 and should bid 2 NT just with 18-19.

 

I know that nearly everybody in this forum is playing that most 5 card majors with 5332 should be open 1 NT if it fits into the NT range. But this consensus is just here in the forum it is not IRL. There, neraly anybody faces this particular problem, because neraly everybody opens his 5 card major.

[Roupoil]

Indeed, the SEF says that 2NT is 18-19, so 5322 hands with a 5-card major (which a good conservative French player would of course never open 1SA) are supposed to go trough a 2m rebid.

 

But as a matter of fact, real life is quite different from theory, and many beginners (and even some non beginners) in France are convinced that 2SA is 15-17 (seeing this as a natural game proposal), so I'm not surprised cherdano is convinced French standard is 15-17. I must confess I myself play it 15-17 on BBO because it's safer, and this error is so common I am afraid some French teachers must teach it this way...

 

I personnally really don't like 15-17, which leads to hopeless 2NT contracts too often, when a 2m rebid leaves more options.