pclayton Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Explain your answer please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Explain your answer please. I (obviously) can't be sure but I sincerely doubt it... Simply put, I think that conciousness is a function of the brain's electro-chemistry. Once the brain turns to pudding, that's that... Conversely, I don't believe in an immortal soul that carries on after us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 If you mean will my consciousness continue after I die, then I strongly suspect the answer is no. If you mean will other people's consciousness continue after I die then I strongly suspect the answer is yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osmom Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 We have all heard the stories surrounding near death episodes, and there seems to be some evidence that there is consciousness when the person is non responsive, and even during such things as aggressive resuscitation. but this is not death, the brain is functioning during these events. Once death has occurred, then I believe there is no further consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Speculation is just seeing what has yet to be revealed. We are here to determine just how to ensure that the conscious awareness that we have achieved can be maintained. Death is the portal through which we must pass and that portal has the normal function of putting all the pieces back where they came from, ready for the next try. Once you have raised your consciousness to the level required to understand and to effect the necessary adjustments, all components will remain in their established functionalities. The state of non-existence is only the unawareness of existence by the conscious self. Your essence (spirit if you will) can neither be created nor destroyed in this reality. It persists and energetically seeks its own "level", ie the most stable conformation of its integrated intelligence possible under the given circumstances. Consciousness and the creativity needed for the transformation of energy into whatever form is required by our intent, is our goal and purpose. Anything less is of little interest or consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 No. After one dies, the physical processes necessary for consciousness do not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 in my definition of death, nothing survives, body, consciousness, etc.... so sort of by default, no, no there isn't. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I don't think I'm concious at work right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I don't think I'm concious at work right now. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 not conscientious possibly unless you are a mattress tester... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Maybe it will one day be possible to evacuate parts of a person's mental functions by copying it to a digital medium before the person dies. Until then, the answer is obviously no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Maybe it will one day be possible to evacuate parts of a person's mental functions by copying it to a digital medium before the person dies. Until then, the answer is obviously no. I have never understood the validity of the science fiction idea of transferring our mind onto a computer. No matter what mechanism is positied, it seems to me that all that would happen is that some computer would suddenly 'experience' my mind state, if that makes any sense: and that regardless of whether my organic brain is destroyed or preserved during this process, the 'I' that is me is not, from the pov of that 'I' the same 'I' that now inhabits the computer... and the very first process that the new 'I' undergoes will change it in a way different from the way in which my 'I' would change, because, no matter how well simulated the duplicate mind may be, it is running under different operating conditions. 'My' consciousness will not be transferred in this process. If 'I' survive, then there will be two very similar personalities/minds diverging immediately, while if 'I' am destroyed in the process of 'uploading', then 'I' am dead and there is no consciousness for me... even if the software thinks there is :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 That is what pov is all about. Perception and intent depend upon pov as the fulcrum of the lever. You can never be what you were. Continuity thru time and space with awareness of our state and place. Perfection in its unicity. Each element differentiated from the whole. Life, the absolute joy of the spirit. Death is only the ultimate insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Explain your answer please. We can't explain gravity yet you want me to explain this? I can explain it this way. This year, I made a New Year's resolution to not make any New Year's resolutions. I didn't make any, but now I don't know if I succeded or failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 'My' consciousness will not be transferred in this process. If 'I' survive, then there will be two very similar personalities/minds diverging immediately, while if 'I' am destroyed in the process of 'uploading', then 'I' am dead and there is no consciousness for me... even if the software thinks there is :) By the same token, the Mikeh of yesterday does not exist anymore, it's just that the Mikeh of today has his memory and therefore has the illusion that he's the same person. Suppose your mind is cloned and the original is not destroyed. There will be two Mikeh's tomorrow, both having the memories of Mikeh of today and therefore both claiming to be you. Maybe the clone can acknowledge intellectually that it's just a clone ("I'm made of silicon and all my, uhm I mean Mike's, friends say he was made of neurons") but it will feel the same, and in fact I would argue that it has as much of a right to the heritage of Mikeh as the other copy has, since a soul is software, not hardware. This is just a thought experiment, of course, I'm not claiming that it will ever happen, let alone that it will happen soon enough for any BBF posters to make use of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 For all we know, we ARE made of silicon, and everything we experience is an elaborate simulation, a la The Matrix. If it's done well enough, how could you tell otherwise? I think the original question is pretty silly to ask. We don't really know what consciousness is -- we have an intuitive notion of it, but some of the best minds on the planet have trouble defining it concretely. We have even less of an idea of how it's formed in the brain. And Douglas Hofstadter, in I Am a Strange Loop, suggests that one's consciousness is not limited to their own mind, but is in a sense spread out among the minds of everyone who knows them. So while he doesn't believe in a soul that lives on after death, he believes that part of your consciousness persists in the memories of your loved ones. When they think, "Joe would have loved this," it's kind of like Joe's retained consciousness enjoying the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Explain your answer please. We can't explain gravity yet you want me to explain this? I can explain it this way. This year, I made a New Year's resolution to not make any New Year's resolutions. I didn't make any, but now I don't know if I succeded or failed. sounds like success to me..... your example in the other thread seemed to be better ("if i try to fail and succeed, what did i do?") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Interesting. Not sure all this stuff is really from you, or even serious. It sounds like the words of a mystic who has a following for his profound insights. Lets just try to understand what you are saying. "Speculation is just seeing what has yet to be revealed." In your dreams. Speculation is mere. "We are here to determine just how to ensure that the conscious awareness that we have achieved can be maintained." Ontological. Like evolution? Collective conciousness? "Death is the portal through which we must pass and that portal has the normal function of putting all the pieces back where they came from, ready for the next try." Sounds like re-incarnation "Once you have raised your consciousness to the level required to understand and to effect the necessary adjustments, all components will remain in their established functionalities." I do not understand this statement. Obviously my conciousness has not reached the required level. "The state of non-existence is only the unawareness of existence by the conscious self. Your essence (spirit if you will) can neither be created nor destroyed in this reality. It persists and energetically seeks its own "level", ie the most stable conformation of its integrated intelligence possible under the given circumstances." Re-incarnation again? "Consciousness and the creativity needed for the transformation of energy into whatever form is required by our intent, is our goal and purpose." Circular statement "Anything less is of little interest or consequence." Now here is the nub. Little interest or consequence to whom? "That is what pov is all about. " What is pov? Point of view? " You can never be what you were." True we change our physical molecules continuously. "Continuity thru time and space with awareness of our state and place. Perfection in its unicity. Each element differentiated from the whole." Pseuds corner. "Life, the absolute joy of the spirit." I like that. "Death is only the ultimate insult." Who is it insulting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hi WJ Thanks for the response. Nope, not from any mystic (unless I qualify, but then I might "see" the cards better at the table... :) ) just stream of consciousness mostly. What I need is the refining of the statement that comes from exchanges like yours. How you receive and deal with any statement that I might share with you helps both of us better understand the nature and quality of our experience. When we extemporize, it is possible to leave the realm of reflection and enter into the state of just exactly what we are made of. Getting the feel (the "vibe" if you will) for what I have to say goes a long way to fostering mutual respect. Once we can open up to each other, it becomes easier to slide the egos out of the way and not be afraid to "rattle the foundations" as it were. If we set aside the intellectual aspect of your query, before I attempt to address your questions/statements, just exactly how did what I had to say make you feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 I can understand why people want to ask these questions, but any answer to it can not be tested and is fairly useless. So my answer to this question is a firm maybe with a mix of what do you mean by "death" and "consciousness"... Why wasn't that an option? Only thing I know that Q: Is there consciousness after death? A: 42 doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 There are no mysteries. There is just incomplete exposure. Once something enters into our ken, we may or may not understand, believe or accept it, but it is there nonetheless. Just the fact that we can formulate such questions indicates to me that they are not only valid but the real test is how many possible alternatives exist and how each one may affect us. Getting there is all the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Quote: "If we set aside the intellectual aspect of your query, before I attempt to address your questions/statements, just exactly how did what I had to say make you feel?" The language you use gives the appearance of profundity, that the other posts do not have. Yet when I look more closely, the meaning is hidden and looks like mere word play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 So you are concerned with the appearance of profundity (relative to the other postings) or you feel that I am jerking you around with wordplay and not saying anything of substance? I would be very interested in knowing what you have to say on the subject but I appreciate the commentary and will attempt to more directly address the subject. You have to admit that this is a pretty profound subject though and that while it appears nebulous and daunting, it is certainly central to our current and eventual experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 btw May 2003: Mission accomplishedOct 2006: Mission impossible may I add 2008 and beyond.....Missionary position :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 How about (blame Helene for putting me into this frame of mind with that question about SW bugs :D): void __noreturn Death(){ *Consciousness = NULL;} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.