Online etuiquete, what is actually correct?

[Fluffy]

I've played a couple of hands recently, on wich declarer made a mistake for clicking too fast.

 

On one I had K10x oppsite singleton, my LHO led the suit, and I played low when RHO produced the Jack, I continued playing because it was my mistake for playing too fast.

 

On another hand I was dumy, partner made a know to be onside finese towards AQ. Opponent decided to prduce the King, and my partner played the queen. He asked for undo, and so it was given.

 

Both were on fun non competitive games at MBC.

 

I feel like everyone around here will accept the undo no matter what when it is asked, so the question ehre is if you should actually ask for it or not.

 

IMO this problem would not happen on f2f bridge, as declarer you have the time from taking the card, and then placing it on the table to see that RHO didn't play the card that was expected, or maybe not. I remember daddy beated a doubled 4♥ once by ruffing with ♥7 in front of declarer who underruffed with the ♥5. Declarer was quite upset :)

[hrothgar]

These same types of problems crop up in both face-to-face and online bridge.

 

I don't think that there is anything approaching an objective standard. Take a look at the infamous "Oh *****!" ruling.

 

AKA

 

Appeals Case 5

Subject: Played Card

Event: NABC Vanderbilt KO Teams,

22 March 99

[helene_t]

Yes, it's correct to ask for undo only by a genuine misclick, not by a change of thought. Sometimes I change my mind about the same time that I click and it's not clear to myself whether I changed my mind before or after I clicked (it is not even clear what that means since decisions reach the conscious level after they have been taken). I such cases I believe one should not ask for an undo. I have sometimes asked for an undo and then a second or so later realized that it was in fact a change of decision.

 

I rarely reject undos and never complain when opps reject my undos. If opps ask for a questionable undo I usually grant it but don't take the result so serious, then.

 

BBO rules state that one is never obliged to grant an undo. Some TDs state that "obvious" undos should be allowed but I see no way to enforce that. As a TD, I don't allow undos. Makes things easier. I do allow undos in most team matches, though.

[ArtK78]

I play in the ACBL tourneys on BBO. I never ask for an undo, nor does my partner. I am not even sure if it is permitted.

 

Recently, my pard misclicked a pass after I cue bid the opponent's suit. That is the way it goes.

[barmar]

I think it is only appropriate to ask for an undo because of a true misclick. Playing too fast, so you don't notice the card that an opponent has played, is NOT a good reason to ask for an undo. This is lack of concentration, not a mechanical problem, and concentration is one of the critical skills in bridge. And it DOES often happen in f2f bridge as well. Unfortunately, unlike revokes and insufficient bids, it's not something that the computer can automatically prevent.

 

However, I've seen players ask for, and often receive, undos like these even when kibbing expert tables. I think even they don't takes these informal games very seriously.

 

Here's a thought. In f2f bridge, declarer can designate cards from dummy with "high", "low", "win it" (follow suit with the lowest card that beats all the cards played so far), "ruff low", "ruff high", etc. Maybe there should be buttons in BBO for the most common of these, and the computer can fdetermine the appropriate card to play.

[Trumpace]

If people are there to play socially but at a reasonable level, I think allowing undos for a quick change of mind is ok. I would prefer to play a decent hand rather than a random hand in which opps are playing in a cue-bid or play the Q from AQ under the K or make a brain dead play and realize it a nanosecond later etc...

 

In MBC, though, this is usually not the case. People seem to be too much result oriented... just look at the number of "clear" claims that get rejected!

[Gerardo]

I may reject an undo if I think you changed your mind. But perhaps not. Everywhere.

[CSGibson]

Funny undo story:

 

Playing on Bridge Base, IMP Pairs:

 

xxx Jxx x QJ98xx first seat white vs white.

 

Decide that it is worthy of a 3C opening. So you open.... 3D. Whoops!

 

Well, LHO has QJxxx amongst their scattered 4-2-5-2 13 count, so they happily pass. Partner is certainly not acting on his 2-5-1-5 9 count. Which leaves RHO to act.

 

Meanwhile you hit Undo, which neither opponent is willing to accept. So, RHO with his 4-3-6-0 14 count decides he wants to defend 3D. All pass.

 

You buy xx AQxxx x KTxxx in dummy, and correctly chose not to take the heart finesse. Down 8. Minus 400. A stone cold top against all of the 420s and 920s when opps played in diamonds or 480s for those playing in spades.

[Feegle]

I don't suppose I'm alone in falling into the 'having my opening lead ready' trap.

Cursor poised over the 'obvious' lead. Opponents make their final pass.

PING, CLICK, oops. The software has shuffled my hand to put trumps on the left.

I gaze, rather ruefully, at my bizarre opening lead.

Do I ask for an undo?

No, after all, it may be the only lead to beat the contract!!

(I suppose this can happen in 'real life' bridge. A piece of biscuit you're finishing gets lodged in your throat. A coughing fit causes a card to fall onto the table. HH surveys it and "generously" suggest you take it back . . . . .)