My favorite...a bidding problem

[jdonn]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sa3h432d3cajt6532]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♦ (4♠) to you[/hv]

[paulg]

Double ... seems way too simple for a jdonn problem so I guess I'm missing something, probably 7♣. Two aces, singleton in partner's suit suggest defence notwithstanding those extra couple of clubs.

 

Paul

[whereagles]

I'll bid a simple 5♣. With a bit of luck this is even natural :)

[helene_t]

As I recall, LHO was a passed hand, wasn't he?

[655321]

5♣ looks like the normal bid, so I make it.

[Fluffy]

first instinct is to bid, it might not make, but has the upside of being raised to cold slam sometimes.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I wont pass, and I wont double, depending on your agreement,

double is for penalty, so 5C it is.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Roupoil]

I bid 5♣ and try to think later if is really was a good bid or not.

[miguelm]

In Imps, it is important to score at your side of the sheet. As it goes, I think I will more successful achieving that goal by Double.

 

The risk of 4E making is minimum.

I have two defensive tricks and I am favorite to ruff one Diam.

It is very likely that partner will contribute with a Diam and a Heart trick and if he is short in Clubs (e.g. 3451) we will be very sucessful.

 

Although I hold a very offensive hand, 5C should show more (I hold a 7 losers hand) or, at least, a better suit.

[kfay]

I think I got another one of those 'why don't you just bid like a human being?' from my partner the last time I had seven cards in a suit but somehow never mentioned them when it was reasonable to do so.

 

5♣

[pclayton]

Double is retarded. 5♣ is obvious.

[cjames]

Argh.. 5♣

[Apollo81]

clear 5♣ call

 

if you double on these sort of hands youll give away a double or single game swing twice for every time you win by doubling

[Guest Jlall]

I think passing is more reasonable than it's getting credit for, but I'd probably just shoot out 5C. Double is just asking for a 5D bid or something from partner, if I could force him to pass I would definitely X though.

[Cascade]

I'm with Justin in thinking that pass has a lot going for it.

 

A penalty double is probably best but that is probably not what does shows - it certainly isn't for me.

 

Partner's most likely hand is balanced crap which is good for double because he will probably pass (although it will sometimes make when he has that hand) but bad for bidding as 5♣ will often fail.

 

As I often do when looking at situations like this I did a very crude simulation on approximately the following conditions:

 

Opener has a standard american 1♦ - 4=4=3=2 or balanced with four diamonds or long diamonds unbalanced and not 15-17 balanced.

 

The opponent has some distribution and seven or more spades (and probably is not going several down.

 

The initial simulation suggested a small gain for bidding 5♣ over passing but was very sensitive to things like allowing the opponents to double you when 5♣ was not making and the possibilities that partner will bid 6♣ making sometimes and not making other times.

 

All in all it is pretty close between that and bidding 5♣ but I will stick with my initial guess and pass.

 

If double is unitaterally penalties then that would be much better.

[jdonn]

Double ... seems way too simple for a jdonn problem so I guess I'm missing something

Well....

In Imps, it is important to score at your side of the sheet. As it goes, I think I will more successful achieving that goal by Double.

Double is retarded. 5♣ is obvious.

I think passing is more reasonable than it's getting credit for

With more feelings in each of those directions. So maybe it's not so simple.

 

I'm pretty sure LHO was not a passed hand Helene. I checked back before I posted, but I won't bet my life on it.

[miguelm]

lol

 

Hei, I have been called retarded.... thanks pclayton, long time I didn't get one of those... and as an argument I have to say it is really convincent :)

[Finch]

I voted for 5C (days ago).

This is one of those hands where you know double is 'right' as long as partner can see your hand before deciding what to do over it.

 

Pass has a lot going for it, but I can't face it.

[helene_t]

I'm pretty sure LHO was not a passed hand Helene. I checked back before I posted, but I won't bet my life on it.

Myhands agrees with you. My bad.

 

Btw, at five other tables in the main room the auction started the same way. Three players bid 5♣ and two passed. This is surprising since some posters say they would double if that would be penalties - and a random BBO partner would probably take it as penalties.

[pclayton]

Gnome told me what happened later.

 

To be clear, I think double is retarded, not the doubler :rolleyes:

[jdonn]

Gnome told me what happened later.

 

To be clear, I think double is retarded, not the doubler :rolleyes:

You would have doubled too if you knew how the auction would continue :D

[Edmunte1]

For me Doubl is much worse than pass. So real choice is between pass and 5♣, and i think that 2 world class players holding this hand in a team match won't try to outsmart themselves by passing

[jdonn]

Since it sort of leaked, I doubled, and I was certainly happy about it when partner passed. Until his hand turned out to be Jx xx AQJxx KQxx and they were cold...

 

In fairness partner having a doubleton heart and four clubs seems like pretty much a fluke, and hardly a reason not to double (the real reason seems to be fear partner will bid 5♦.) Still some of the responses are causing me to rethink things.

[Winstonm]

I made the retarded double, but in defense of retards everywhere I assumed it was penalty.

[miguelm]

Since it sort of leaked, I doubled, and I was certainly happy about it when partner passed. Until his hand turned out to be Jx xx AQJxx KQxx and they were cold...

I don't like to base arguments on results, and I won't do that here as well... but I can't stop myself from comment that "cold" game, in which you had to face with 3 losers after trick one, which can become 4 if you handle the Diams. the wrong way (and it is far from clear which one is the right way lol).

 

:)