kenrexford Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Two players who fancy themselves great bidders had a debate about the bidding on these two hands: Opener: ♠x ♥AKxx ♦AQxxx ♣KxxResponder: ♠AQx ♥xx ♦108x ♣QJ109x The auction (should be "normal" 2/1 GF approach): 1♦-P-1♠-P-2♣-P-3♣-P-3NT-all pass It turns out that 3NT makes if played by Responder. Responder: "Why not bid where you are and simply bid 3♥. I'll then bid 3NT and the contract will play from the right side?"Opener: "I believed that 3♥ expressed concern about 3NT because of the heart suit and felt that 3NT was more proper with AK in hearts. Why bid the 3-card spade suit?"Responder: "I bid 1♠ because that's where I live. Why bid the three-card club suit? Why not just pattern out properly with 2♥?"Opener: "I'm not good enough for 2♥. I think that 2♣ is more flexible, and I can always bid 2♥ after a 2♦ courtesy correction."Responder: "3♥, by the way, is not some sort of asking bid. It just shows where you live." Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 nice geographical synesthesia Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 1♦ 1NT2♥ 3NT Bridge becomes very easy when people stop bidding suits they don't have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Could not have said it more succinctly than Josh. "Bid 1S because that's where I live?" Well he lives in funny places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 1♦ I have an opening hand with some Diamonds1NT I don't have a 4 card major, I don't have enough points to respond at the 2 level, and my hand is not suitable for raising your diamonds2♥ I have extra values, 4 card ♥, and longer ♦3NT Great, we should be able to make 3NT If I have been playing golf for a few years, and decide that I am now too good a player to keep my head still, and to keep my eyes open when I hit the ball*, that does not make me a great player... * Forgive me if this is not correct golf behavior, if necessary substitute some suitable golfing advice. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Responder is a wacko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Two players who fancy themselves great bidders had a debate about the bidding on these two hands: Opener: ♠x ♥AKxx ♦AQxxx ♣KxxResponder: ♠AQx ♥xx ♦108x ♣QJ109x The auction (should be "normal" 2/1 GF approach): 1♦-P-1♠-P-2♣-P-3♣-P-3NT-all pass It turns out that 3NT makes if played by Responder. Responder: "Why not bid where you are and simply bid 3♥. I'll then bid 3NT and the contract will play from the right side?"Opener: "I believed that 3♥ expressed concern about 3NT because of the heart suit and felt that 3NT was more proper with AK in hearts. Why bid the 3-card spade suit?"Responder: "I bid 1♠ because that's where I live. Why bid the three-card club suit? Why not just pattern out properly with 2♥?"Opener: "I'm not good enough for 2♥. I think that 2♣ is more flexible, and I can always bid 2♥ after a 2♦ courtesy correction."Responder: "3♥, by the way, is not some sort of asking bid. It just shows where you live." Thoughts? will I be able to see a 1 spade bid when (if ever) I become advanced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I actually like opener's auction if it is agreed to play very strong reverses. I hate the 1 spade bid. Just bid like a human being - 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have to admit to having perpetrated similar 1s bids before, but I would bid 1n on this hand. I think if opener thinks he is not good enough for 2h, he just has to bid 1n, and I agree with his interpretation of the potential 3h bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have to admit to having perpetrated similar 1s bids before, but I would bid 1n on this hand. I think if opener thinks he is not good enough for 2h, he just has to bid 1n, and I agree with his interpretation of the potential 3h bid. Now 1NT after a 1 spade bid is definitely a bid I would hate - you don't have the shape and your hand is better than expected by a queen. Lying about one club seems like less of a bridge sin than lying about both shape and HCP - there's no way to recover intelligently on a subsequent auction, while if you are passed in 2 clubs, at least that could be your best spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 1♦ 1NT2♥ 3NT Bridge becomes very easy when people stop bidding suits they don't have... Quite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hi, ok, I would have bid 2H instead of 2C, andthis would be my first question to opener,because in the given seq. 3H instead of 3NTwould be 4th suit, e.g. asking for a heart stopper, so opener had endplayed himselfto bid 3NT after 3C. I prefer the reverse, but I belong to the light reverse school, and if you cant make the reverse, you have to bid 2DAssuming 3H over 3C is natural, patterning out,(which it is not, at least for me), it should showa 5440 shape, and hence is also a lie, you have to decide for your own, if this lie is bigger than the lie, which ou make with a reverse. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: I did not realise, that the 1S bid was made on a 3 carder, ok: Simply put, both got what they deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I agree with opener that his hand is too weak for a reverse, but that's a matter of style of course. As for a 3♥ bid by opener, responder has his theory right. Responder should have responded 1NT, though. Not in order to right-side the contract but simply because it's the only correct bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Of course 1 ♦ 1 NT2 ♥ 3 NT is too easy for immortals, but good enough for me. Interessting is, what to do after 1 ♦ 1 ♠? If I am too weak for a reverse, I would rebid 1 NT (even if I hate to do so with a singelton). But I am not, why should I be? I have 16 nice HCPS and a good 5 card suit, so 2 Heart is easy.In this case the bidding had been: 1 ♦ 1 ♠2 ♥ 3 NT ( I habe a sure Club Stopper) Still easy. So, the hand could stand ONE Fake bid, but not two, because after 2 Club, 3 Club from responder is correct and seals the fate of the contract. And for the last question: For me 3 Heart as 4. suit is OF COURSE asking for stopper. What else should it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Oh, and as a bonus question, which idiot was I at the table? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 That question is a lot tougher. I'll say 60% chance you were opener and 40% that you were responder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Comment 1: If I were playing opposite myself I would probably have the following auction 1N - 3N I don't consider south's hand strong enough for a reverse I don't like any of my rebids after 1♦ - 1♠ It's not textbook bidding and leads to the same contract from the same side as you and your partner perpetrated, however, at least I don't puke looking at the auction. (I suspect that other people do) Comment 2: If my partner were to open 1♦, I'd bid 1NT with responder's hand in a Heartbeat. 1♠ is idiotic. You're completely screwed if opener raises to 2♠ (which looks pretty likely) 2NT is typically artificial and forcing3♣ is new minor forcing Your best case scenario is that you pass 2♠, catch a 4 card raise, and play a Moysian with the tap in the hand with the Spade honors. Even here, you have a very real possibility that you're playing in a 3-3 Spade fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Responder: "I bid 1♠ because that's where I live." Yeah how could he reply 1N which suggests 8+cards in the minors, and often a club suit. My bet is you were opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Oh, and as a bonus question, which idiot was I at the table? LOL 1♠ was crazy bid, 2♣ was a creative solution to a difficult rebid problem, some thought went into 3NT instead of a knee jerk 3♥... being concerned what partner would take 3♥ to mean. So opener seemed less idiotic than responder. Since your partner was not identified, we don't know who was the less idiotic of the partnership.... I can think of players more idiotic than you, and players less iditioc than you. I will say that bidding 3 card suits at the one or two level both sound like you, that is, I find it believable that you would respond to 1m with 1M holding a 3 card suit, or rebid in a 3 card club suit after opening 1D. Also, the inconsitency of opener asking why partner bids a three card suit, when he himself bid a three card suit sounds like you, as does the logic of why 3H's is wrong. I can't see you saying the last sentence credited to responder, as I believe you would hold the opener's view on why bid/not bid 3H. The only problem with this logic, is then why did you post this hand? This is one of the simpliest hands in the world to bid, and doesn't take a great bidder on either side to reach 3NT from the correct side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 1♦-1N;2♥-3N Bridge becomes very easy when people stop bidding suits they don't have... Quite The hands in question:Open: ♠x ♥AKxx ♦AQxxx ♣KxxResp: ♠AQx ♥xx ♦108x ♣QJT9x Count my vote as the quoted as well. As for how "good" the reverse is with the given Opening hand: K&R (x AKxx AQxxx Kxx) = 18.70 DK = 17- So even for those playing Strong Reverses, Opener's hand should qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I don't care for a reverse on this hand. I already panned the 1♠ call in the other thread, but I think this is a reasonable auction: 1♦ - 1N2♣ - 3♣3♥ - 3N. This auction is a galaxy away from the original sequence. Here, 3♥ is definitely 'where you live' and is the most effective route to 3N or 5♣. Responder can volley back with 3♠ with a holding such as Axx or Kxx and we'll still right-side the NT if Opener has Qx or such. I don't know who you were here. My guess is you were playing with your clone :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 The hand seems worth a reverse after a 1N reply (due to the club fit), but maybe not after a 1♠ reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 That question is a lot tougher. I'll say 60% chance you were opener and 40% that you were responder. Good guess. I was opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 The only problem with this logic, is then why did you post this hand? This is one of the simpliest hands in the world to bid, and doesn't take a great bidder on either side to reach 3NT from the correct side. Well, I was supposedly "playing up," but I caught hell for this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 The hand seems worth a reverse after a 1N reply (due to the club fit), but maybe not after a 1♠ reply. Agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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