Turbo

[marcinpu]

Looking at world-class pairs it seems that only a few of them use Turbo (e.g. Fantunes). However even the players that have RKC in their toolbox, bid most slams just by using cue-bids. In this case I wonder why they don't use Turbo as it gives additional info "for free" ;-)

 

Any views?

 

M.

[helene_t]

Theoretically Turbo should indeed be better than RKC. You don't waste the 4N bid just asking for something which partner already knows you are going to ask for.

 

OTOH it seems to me that it must be complex to make rules for when Turbo alies than for when RKC applies. Or maybe it's just because Turbo is not what I'm used to.

[benlessard]

Once in a while we see a RKC disaster. 1 made an agressive limit raise with 0 keycard but later after a 30 response his partner thought he had 3 keycards. I sometimes feel its barely possible to not be sure on how many keycard partner hold after his responses.So my feeling is when its 1 or 3 or 2-4 the chance are much higher.

 

[hv=n=saqjtxhkxxxdxxckx&s=skxxhaqjtxxxdkxcx]133|200|[/hv]

 

1S---2H

3H---3S

4C---4D

4H---5C (cue+ odd number of keycards.)

[ArcLight]

Can someone please post some good links and examples if Turbo.

[A2003]

Turbo Convention (copied from Turbo convention)

This conventional method was designed to be employed with the Neapolitan Cuebid, which shows a first orsecond round control after a suit-fit has been established. The Neapolitan Cuebid is a feature of theNeapolitan System, which was principally developed by Mr. Eugenio Chiaradia, but which in later yearswas further revised by Mr. Benito Garozzo in 1965 and which was renamed by him as the Blue Team Club.This conventional method, which is incorporated in the Blue Team Club, then allows the bidder to informthe partner about the number of Aces and/or Key Cards held.

The fundamental concept of the Turbo convention is that the partner rebids 4 No Trump to show an even number of Aces and/or Key Cards. This may only occur after a cuebid has been made showing a first orsecond round control after suit establishment. If the partner rebids higher than 4 No Trump, then this actionshows an odd number of Aces and/or Key Cards and also a first-round control in that named suit. The bid,therefore, of 4 No Trump does not ask for the number of Aces and/or Key Cards, but rather shows adefinite number of Aces and/or Key Cards.

North South

♠ 65 ♠ A87

♥ AKJ87 ♥ 10943

♦ A ♦ QJ75

♣ A8765 ♣ K6

North East South West

1 ♥ Pass 3 ♥ Pass

4 ♣ Pass 4 ♥ Pass

4 NT

In the above auction, the first response of South of 3 ♥ promises a Limit Raise, generally with a 4-cardtrump support, and establishes the trump suit. The 4 ♣ rebid by North then becomes the Neapolitan Cuebidshowing either a first or second round control in Clubs. When South rebids 4 ♥, this informs North thatNorth that South does not hold any first or second round control in Diamonds, because South “by-passed”the Diamond suit.

North, however, is still interested in a possible slam, and rebids 4 No Trump, which is then the Turboconventional method, and not any form of the Blackwood convention. The 4 No Trump bid by Northpromises an even number of Aces and/or Key Cards: either 0, or 2, or 4 Aces and/or Key Cards.

In the above example, South, after first making a Limit Raise, realizes that North has four Key Cards, andpossessing one Ace and/or Key Card, South will then place the contract at: 6 ♥. If South holds no Ace and/or Key Card, then South simply signs off at 5 ♥.

Those partnerships agreements, which include the Splinter bid, may be confronted with several confusingauctions and should become aware of the possible problems. The following examples should clarify:

North East South West

1 ♠ Pass 4 ♦ Pass

4 NT

In the above example, the first response of South is a Splinter bid. The rebid of 4 No Trump by North thenbecomes the Ace and/or Key Card asking bid. It is not the Turbo conventional method.

North East South West

1 ♠ Pass 4 ♣ Pass

4 ♦ Pass 4 ♠

4 NT

 

After the 4 ♣ Splinter bid by South as the first response, establishing the trump suit, North cuebids

Diamonds to show first or second round control. South “by-passes” Hearts to show neither first nor second

round control in Hearts and returns to the trump suit. The rebid by North of 4 No Trump then becomes the

Turbo conventional method, showing an even number of Aces and/or Key Cards.

[BillHiggin]

Turbo for minors:

Most documentation on turbo does not mention use with minor suit agreement. It is mentioned in the Ambra documentation. 4N does not work when a minor is agreed (if clubs, then 5C would be either odd number of key cards or a suit has been proven to have two losers and there is no way to clear that ambiguity). Instead, 4m is the turbo bid.

This can be quite useful (as compared to minorwood or kickback) in cases where minor suit agreement and a game force have been established at the three level (does not help when agreement comes at the 4 level).

[Free]

One on Kickback Turbo:

http://freebridge.blogspot.com/2006/12/kickback-turbo.html

 

On my blog you can also find some examples, especially in August 2007.

[helene_t]

It seems to me that the Turbo players cannot bypass the kc thing. If you want to show an additional control by cuebidding at the 5-level after the first round, you are bound to show an odd number of kcs (or even number by temporizing with 4N) even if you don't care about kcs.This is impractical if you want to show controls rather than ask for them but you have an even number of kcs.

 

Also it seems to me that Turbo is impractical in cases where there is a clear captaincy. Suppose the informant bids 4♠. Now the captain would like to relay with 4N, but can only do so if he happens to have an even number of kcs.

[BillHiggin]

It seems to me that the Turbo players cannot bypass the kc thing.

Turbo is intended for use in mixed cue bid auctions. When your cue bids show either first or second round control, there is a need to check on that aces thingy since you may have control in each suit but be off way too many aces (since one is the normal limit for slam purposes). The Italian systems include an assortment of relay methods for pure captaincy situations and I believe that turbo would not apply unless they started cue bidding in those.

 

Oversimplified comparison assuming major suit agreement with GF established at 3M:

 

Aces first cue-bidding without blackwood - 4 level establishes first round control, 5 level establishes 2nd round controls (weakness - you get too high with a completely open side suit).

 

Mixed cue-bidding with RKC blackwood - 4 level establishes no 2 loser side suits, 5 level determines aces and trump quality (weakness - exposes weak side suits, limits grand slam exploration to 6 level).

 

Mixed cue-bidding with turbo - 4 level establishes no 2 loser side suits, 5 level determined aces and begins grand slam exploration (weakness - exposes weak side suits, increased ambiguity about aces especially when partnership total shows an even number missing, trump queen not established before commiting to small slam).

 

Of course, system may eliminate or minimize some or all of the weaknesses in the priliminary auction.

 

With minor suit agreement, a partnership usually devotes the 3 level to investigation of 3N as a final contract. This leaves just the 4 level to answer control issues. Turbo and mixed cue-bidding do that better than most other methods (still with the problem of determining whether there are 0 or 2 missing key cards).

[NickToll]

The way I have seen Turbo played by Italian best players:

(1) 4NT is Turbo if it's not a jump (otherwise is RKCB or simple Blackwood, or quantitative when appropriate);

(2) when 4NT has been bid or bypassed by the partnership, bidding 5NT denies the trump Queen, while bypassing 5NT promises it.

Turbo is usually played together with Italian cuebids (1st and 2nd round cuebids altogether).

 

Advantage n.1: Turbo does not interrupt cue-bidding. Suppose partner opens 1♥ and you have:

 

♠ x x ♥ A K x x ♦ A J ♣ Q J x x x

 

1♥ 2♣

2♥ 3♥

3♠ 4♦

4♠ 5♣

 

4♦ promises a diamond control and denies a club control. Now opener's 4♠ shows both spade controls and implies a club control: hence, 5♣ shows an odd number of key-cards and the Queen of clubs (skip-then-bid = Queen).

 

Advantage n.2: Turbo is on when a minor suit has been agreed upon. Example:

 

♠ A K ♥ A K x x x x ♦ A ♣ K J 10 9

 

♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ x x x x ♣ A Q x x x

 

2♣ 2♦

2♥ 3♣

4♣ 5♣

5NT 7♣

 

3♣ is natural and positive (whereas 2NT would have been negative), and 5♣ shows one key-card with no convenient cue-bid (the only side control is a singleton in partner's suit). Now, 5NT asks for the Trump Queen.

 

Defect n.1: yes, Helene is right, Turbo is not the best when one of the players needs to retain the captaincy. If the strong hand has to bid or bypass 4NT, his/her partner will have to decide. Sometimes the weak hand will be able to clarify that all keycards are held by the partnership through further cuebidding, but not always.

 

Defect n.2: it is very difficult to handle voids. You can manifacture a patch (i.e., jumping in the void suit with an odd number of key-cards), but nothing will be perfect.

 

Defect n.3: Bill's point about the potential ambiguity of 5♣ (odd KCs or an uncontrolled suit?). This is a serious issue: one can choose to address it with Negative Cuebids, or to live with it. IMHO playing 4♣ as Turbo instead of 4NT opens other problems: you have to be sure that (1) clubs has been established as trumps before 4♣ and (2) 4♣ is not needed as sign-off (e.g., after a stopper-showing sequence): this is not always the case.

 

(The two examples above come from an article by Marina Causa).

[lilboyman]

http://homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/pdf/TurboConvention.pdf

[Free]

The biggest disadvantage in my experience is when one of the players holds a void and hasn't been able to show it yet. Otherwise not much problems at all.