Game try ?

[plaur]

[hv=s=sak743h862dk73c32]133|100|1♦ - p - 1♠ - 2♥

2♠* - p - ?

* 4 spades[/hv]

How do analyze this hand when deciding to make a gametry or not?

[hrothgar]

[hv=s=sak743h862dk73c32]133|100|1♦ - p - 1♠ - 2♥

2♠* - p - ?

* 4 spades[/hv]

How do analyze this hand when deciding to make a gametry or not?

1. Partner rates to have a weak NT with 4 card Spade support

 

2. I have three baby Hearts which is the worst possible holding with a simple overcall and no raise

 

3. We have a nine card fit, which is nice, but no guarantee that we have enough power for game

 

I suspect that the limit of the hand is nine tricks

[inquiry]

[hv=s=sak743h862dk73c32]133|100|1♦ - p - 1♠ - 2♥

2♠* - p - ?

* 4 spades[/hv]

How do analyze this hand when deciding to make a gametry or not?

First, you need to look at the type of game or vulnerability. I say this because with this hand vul at imps, I would not make a game try. The reason being is that if this was imps and I was vulnerable, I would simply bid 4♠ (well, i guess I am going to try to make game rather than try to bid one).

 

How might I come to that decision? There are a lot of ways to evaluate hands. Goren would say something like 10 hcp, and one point for the doubleton diamond now that spades have been supported. You have 11, partner can easily have 14 or 15 hcp, so invite is in order. Zar of Zar point fame (only for those who know ZAR points) would evaluate the hand this way, he would say 10 hcp, 4 control points, 11 distributional points, 2 fit points (one for doubleton, one for diamond King in parnters suit)... he comes to 27 points. Since his partner needs 25 points with 4 spades to open, this tops the 52 he recommends for game.

 

The real evaluation is that at imps, vul, you need to bid close games, and if partner has 13 or so points (counting distribution) you should have some play for game.

 

Despite the ZAR analysis, at other forms of scoring, I would tend to bid more slowly. Not vul at imps. I might even pass at MP -- depending a bit upon partners bidding style, but this hand is really worth a game try at any game type... in part due to the fifth spade and in part due the purity of your ten hcp (AK of trumps and King in partners suit). There are a lot of other hands where with five and 10 hcp and 5332 distribution, will easily be the right choice.

[whereagles]

Game is probably cold if pard has ♥xx (which isn't that difficult) because all the cards are working. I'd bid a straight 4 if feeling lucky, else probe with 3♦.

[jdonn]

I would try for game at any form of scoring. I would bid 3♦ if partner will understand this as forcing, otherwise a simple 3♠ should do just fine. It's very close to just bidding 4♠ vul at imps, I wouldn't be hard on someone who does that. But I can't believe passing, even at mps. The three small hearts aren't stupendous but I'm fairly neutral about that holding in a suit bid on my left, as opposed to a suit bid on my right in which case it is clearly bad.

[mike777]

[hv=s=sak743h862dk73c32]133|100|1♦ - p - 1♠ - 2♥

2♠* - p - ?

* 4 spades[/hv]

How do analyze this hand when deciding to make a gametry or not?

If partner opens on junk I bid 3d game try, if partner opens with what I call very sound I bid game and hope I do not miss slam.

[CSGibson]

[hv=s=sak743h862dk73c32]133|100|1♦ - p - 1♠ - 2♥

2♠* - p - ?

* 4 spades[/hv]

How do analyze this hand when deciding to make a gametry or not?

If partner opens on junk I bid 3d game try, if partner opens with what I call very sound I bid game and hope I do not miss slam.

You're not missing slam. Partner can see his shape and working values if he has Kx of hearts or a singleton, and will re-evaluate his hand accordingly.

 

I'm making a game try; if I get to play my system, I'm asking with a 2NT Kokish game try. If playing help-suit, I'm bidding 3 diamonds and going to game if partner counters with 3 hearts.

[neilkaz]

With 3 little ♥ and 2 little ♣ bidding game is a bit brash for me, but I will certainly make a game try as I want to be there unless PD is minimum.

[nick_s]

No one mentioned the Losing Trick Count - yet another evaluation method that works well with 9 card fits.

 

Depending upon which method you use, you have 7.5 or 8 losers. According to the LTC, 8 losers is worth a game invitation, with 7 losers you can bid game yourself.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

following simply the HCP count scale, would say,

just says do it.

 

You have 10 HCP, your partner can still hold up

to 15 for his opening bid, i.e. prtnership can still

hold 25HCP in the combined hands, 25HCP is

more than enough to make game a reasonable

shoot, go for it.

 

Bridge is an easy game.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: I am not pointing out, that you have a 9 card

trump fit, that your 10 HCP are solely based on Aces

and Kings, which is a plus factor, and that you hold

an honor in partners suit, and your opening bid style,

because it does not matter.

Those features get relevant, if you hold a boarderline

hand, e.g. exchange the King of diamond with the

Queen of diamonds.

=> Now it is less clear cut, but you should still

make the game try, given the plus features

mentioned above .

Now further switch the minor suits, i.e. you have

xx in diamonds and xx in clubs

=> I still would make the game try, but if you

regular open garbage, pass is now a real option.

[pclayton]

At first I agreed with Josh that this hand is only worth a game try, but I constructed a few minimums where pard would not accept a game try.

 

I'm going to plow this into game. Three reasons:

 

1. We have a 9 card fit.

2. We have a double fit.

3. All of partner's rounded suit honors are well placed over the overcaller.

 

Here's some random minimums:

 

A. ♠QJxx ♥xx ♦AQxx ♣Kxx.

B. ♠Qxxx ♥Kx ♦Axxxx ♣Kx.

C. ♠xxxx ♥Qx ♦AQxxx ♣Kx.

D. ♠xxxx ♥Axx ♦AQxx ♣Kx.

 

I want to be in game with A, B and usually D. Even C gives us a chance with 5-3 hearts.

[jdonn]

Here's some random minimums:

 

A. ♠QJxx ♥xx ♦AQxx ♣Kxx.

B. ♠Qxxx ♥Kx ♦Axxxx ♣Kx.

C. ♠xxxx ♥Qx ♦AQxxx ♣Kx.

D. ♠xxxx ♥Axx ♦AQxx ♣Kx.

 

I want to be in game with A, B and usually D. Even C gives us a chance with 5-3 hearts.

I don't like your examples because they aren't random minimums, they are very pure minimums. You essentially don't have a single wasted QJ in hearts or clubs on any of them, in fact there is but one jack in the hands combined.

 

I would accept a game try anyway on B and D.

[hrothgar]

Here's some random minimums:

 

A. ♠QJxx ♥xx ♦AQxx ♣Kxx.

B. ♠Qxxx ♥Kx ♦Axxxx ♣Kx.

C. ♠xxxx ♥Qx ♦AQxxx ♣Kx.

D. ♠xxxx ♥Axx ♦AQxx ♣Kx.

 

I want to be in game with A, B and usually D. Even C gives us a chance with 5-3 hearts.

I don't like your examples because they aren't random minimums, they are very pure minimums. You essentially don't have a single wasted QJ in hearts or clubs on any of them, in fact there is but one jack in the hands combined.

I have a slightly different issue with the choice of hands:

 

If opener is sitting on a 4=x=5=x hand then but we and the opponents have a double fit. This doesn't seem consistent with the opponent's bidding (or lack there of)

[y66]

Of possible interest: What Makes an Odds-on Invite

[joker_gib]

This hand is at least an invite and I'm really close to bid 4 !

 

Alain