pclayton Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 One more: ♠x♥KTx♦Kxx♣QTxxxx Red / White. RHO passes, you pass, LHO opens a weak 2♠. pard doubles and RHO bids 3♠. Say you bid 4♣. I don't think it's clear you should, but lets say you do. Pard now bids 4N. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I assume 4NT is asking about spade control, which I have. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else. I bid 5C; I'm chicken. If partner tables xx AQxx AQxx AKx, he wins the post-mortem. Edit: This is also sort of a safe action that covers a couple different meanings from partner. Keycard? Don't have any. 4NT to play? I think 5C is possibly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Umm... it depends on what 4NT means? I think 4♣ is pretty clear by the way. Seems like it could be any of: (1) Keycard. So I'll respond to keycard.(2) Suggesting to play 4NT. Seems fine to me, I'd pass.(3) Asking for a spade control. I would bid 6♣ over this, showing spade control and no side control. I'm not embarrassed by my 4♣ bid. My normal preference would actually be (2), using 4♠ to show a club slam try regardless of spade holding. But obviously this is a matter of agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Well I think I have to pass, although I am not confident about this making.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Partner doubled then bid NT. He didn't bid 2NT over 2♠. He's not doubling with a weak NT. What do we think he has? He has a hand too good to bid a direct 2NT. He doesn't have a trick taking hand (he bids 3NT over 2♠). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 4♠ would also be a club move for me -- RKCB though. 4NT, accordingly, asks for spade control. I have it, and I like my hand. Because I do not have a void -- 6♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 4♣ was beyond obvious. Now I bid 6♣, trying to survive no matter how partner meant 4NT. If 4NT was natural I would bid 6♣ anyway, not that I'm completely confident it would make but I'm at least as confident as I am that 4NT would make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Happy with 4C. The rest depends on agreements. For me this is RKCB and 5C from me. It's more logical for 4S to be RKCB, but less simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think I mostly agree with Adam and jdonn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I take it 4NT is RKCB. Can't really see what else it should be... I just bid the canonical 5♣ and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I didn't ever heard of that asking for spade control thing. IMO 4NT as natural has no sense, at this point of the bidding you are gonna play in clubs or maybe in a red suit, nothing else. That leaves only blackwood, and I just answer with the right bid on our methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have never heard of the spade control ask either. Anyway, I held the component hand. I didn't bid 4N because I wasn't sure what it meant. I plodded with 4♦ with: ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? We ended in 5♣. Got a 4-1 trump split. He's absolutely cold but flat murdered the play to go -1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall B) I don't think so. I'm not sure what the most popular agreements are, but I like to x with a flexible hand such as that which can play both 3NT and 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall B) I don't think so. I'm not sure what the most popular agreements are, but I like to x with a flexible hand such as that which can play both 3NT and 4H. Holding 4♥ was incidental. This is a 20 count which is just too good for 2N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall B) I don't think so. I'm not sure what the most popular agreements are, but I like to x with a flexible hand such as that which can play both 3NT and 4H. Holding 4♥ was incidental. This is a 20 count which is just too good for 2N. Yeah, I understand. I mean x'ing to find 4 hearts from partner, as opposed to gunning it out with 3NT directly. This hand is always going to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall B) I don't think so. I'm not sure what the most popular agreements are, but I like to x with a flexible hand such as that which can play both 3NT and 4H. Holding 4♥ was incidental. This is a 20 count which is just too good for 2N. The suggestion was to jump to 3NT. I would jump to 3NT with a hand too good to bid 2NT and without the flexibility to double. In practice this usually means a minor oriented hand - one or two suited. Normally I would double with four hearts but with xxxx maybe I would consider 3NT - I can see problems with both double and the leap to 3NT. I think I would probably just double and hope to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall :rolleyes: A 3NT overcall should be a running tricks and a stop in the bid suit, not a balanced 20 count. Double is right, obviously, and 4 NT natural seems right also, since you have a 4 spade cue bid for all hands interested in club slams, although I understand that others may assign a special meaning to the 4NT bid, like a spade ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Actually 3NT shows (incredibly) a hand that wills to play 3NT opposite a normal hand form partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall :) A 3NT overcall should be a running tricks and a stop in the bid suit, not a balanced 20 count. Double is right, obviously, and 4 NT natural seems right also, since you have a 4 spade cue bid for all hands interested in club slams, although I understand that others may assign a special meaning to the 4NT bid, like a spade ask. I agree. This hand is wrong for 3N. We'll be goaded into it frequently when pard Lebensohl's but that's life. As Wayne mentioned - I missed the comment - I thought it referred to a 2N overcall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 ♠AKx♥98xx♦AQTx♣AK If 4N is natural (and why shouldn't it be, as Matt suggests) isn't this the perfect call? no. that's a perfect direct 3NT overcall :) A 3NT overcall should be a running tricks and a stop in the bid suit, not a balanced 20 count. Double is right, obviously, and 4 NT natural seems right also, since you have a 4 spade cue bid for all hands interested in club slams, although I understand that others may assign a special meaning to the 4NT bid, like a spade ask. Disagree. I would bid 3NT all of the time with say 4=2=3=4 20 count. Double would just encourage partner to bid 4♥, especially on a competitive auction, with marginal values and length in hearts. Other balanced shapes that I have bid 3NT are 3=2=4=4, any 4-3-3-3, any 5♠-3-3-2 etc. I might even try 3NT with a singleton in the other major 4=1=4=4 for example especially with a stiff ace or king. Of course I would bid 3NT on hands with a long minor as well. For me 3NT is just a hand too good for 2NT and unsuitable for a double with a stopper in the opponent's suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 :P Have to respond key cards according to our system. If pard has a notrump type hand, it must be HUGE, and she is fishing for seven. It would have to be too big to bid 2NT or 3NT the first time. Sounds more like a club fit and a slam try. I am kinda a min for 4♣, we may get too high, but wtf, sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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