gwnn Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 xxAKQxxxxKxAx LHO opens 1♠, RHO bids 1NT forcing, we're favorable, we try 4♥, LHO bids 4♠, passed to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I am always wrong on these... I don't think we can double. given our hand and a normal 1N from RHO, we should not expect to set. what do we do if p takes out the double to 5m? bid 5h? doesn't that show a much better hand? i runno, but i think possibly the problem comes from the original 4♥ call in that our hand is too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I don't like playing Texas Transfers with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Caveat: I was Csaba's pard here. I think if you are overcalling 4H (3S decribes this hand well IMO) then its a mandatory double. How much more defense can you possibly have for a green preempt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Agree with Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I think this is an easy double. I expect partner to pull with nothing, as he should realize that I cannot possibly be expecting to set in my own hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I bid 4H then X with these hands a lot and have gotten good results from it so I will continue that. The bidding problem was the round before though, if you are bidding 4H on this you are committed to Xing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 4♥ followed by double says that you bid it to make, not to preempt. Let partner in on the secret. Double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Dbl. Agree with Justin, the bidding problem was the round before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I don't like the 4♥ bid, because of precisely this sort of problem. My own observations have been: (1) Opponents will very often bid 4♠ over a 4♥ bid like this. They tend to push in competitive auctions. If opponents do choose to sell to 4♥ or 4♥X, they are usually right to do so. (2) The potential advantage of bidding 4♥ then, is that sometimes opponents will overbid to 4♠. But sometimes they will have their 4♠ bid too. If we could always manage to double 4♠ when opponents have overbid and pass it out when they have their calls, then bidding 4♥ would certainly be a winner. However.... (3) We have to double, because partner is totally out of the loop here. Our attempt to win the board by bidding 4♥ directly will fail disastrously if 4♥ was making and we let them take an undoubled sacrifice. (4) Having doubled, we can't defend 4♠ undoubled. We're now betting that either 4♠ is failing or 5♥ is a good sacrifice (not clear) and that partner, looking at very few of our side's assets, can figure out which option is better (even less clear). (5) Finally, there will be a great number of hands where 4♠ is a close call, either making or one off. Say it's fifty-fifty, and the other table defends 4♠ each time. Our options are to defend 4♠X (losing 5 imps half the time, gaining 3 imps the other half) or to bid on to 5♥ doubled, say two down (losing 9 imps half the time, gaining 8 imps the other half). This is a losing proposition in general. Sometimes it is simply right to defend undoubled. Anyways, I agree with the crowd that having bid 4♥ there is little choice now but to double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 X, as long as you have agreed, thatit shows an interest to sacrifice unless,partner has some defence against 4S. But I am not 100% sure, this is really best,given the defence we hold. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 A lot of people who I respect are passing 4♠, but I think thats just plain nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 A lot of people who I respect are passing 4♠, but I think thats just plain nuts. Like who? That is unbelievable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 4♥ ok. now dbl to say "i got some extras" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 :) I don't like to take issue with anyone who has won a national championship, much less a world championship, but I am having difficulty seeing the logic in doubling. I have 16 HCP, but only two sure tricks against their 10 trick game. They could easily have all of the rest of the deck's high cards and KNOW IT from the bidding. Sure, LHO was under some pressure, but SO WHAT. At this juncture, his info is better than mine. More to the point, what master move is partner supposed to make after I double? I really think the double is wrong. What does it gain compared to what does it risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 B) I don't like to take issue with anyone who has won a national championship, much less a world championship, but I am having difficulty seeing the logic in doubling. I have 16 HCP, but only two sure tricks against their 10 trick game. They could easily have all of the rest of the deck's high cards and KNOW IT from the bidding. Sure, LHO was under some pressure, but SO WHAT. At this juncture, his info is better than mine. More to the point, what master move is partner supposed to make after I double? I really think the double is wrong. What does it gain compared to what does it risk? In this case 800 versus 300 but thats another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 :P I don't like to take issue with anyone who has won a national championship, much less a world championship, but I am having difficulty seeing the logic in doubling. I have 16 HCP, but only two sure tricks against their 10 trick game. They could easily have all of the rest of the deck's high cards and KNOW IT from the bidding. Sure, LHO was under some pressure, but SO WHAT. At this juncture, his info is better than mine. More to the point, what master move is partner supposed to make after I double? I really think the double is wrong. What does it gain compared to what does it risk? Hi, no problem to take issue with anything I say, I am wrong a lot :) The logic is that you were bidding 4H to make, and if you couldn't make hopefully to push them around into something they can't make. A lot of people will bid 4S in this sequence on a hand they would have bid 2S on had we pass! Hands with 7 spades and short hearts, or decent hands with 6 spades and short hearts. Whether or not this is right, a lot of people ESPECIALLY experts cannot help themselves from bidding 4S over 4H. So basically 4S is very wide ranged, and most of the time they have the lower end of their range rather than a 9 trick hand. You can get them for a lot of 500s this way in my experience. Some don't like this approach to bridge, and that's fine too. If you don't like this 4M then X strategy, I would say you should stick to not bidding 4M directly and try and describe your hand somehow so that the final decision can be left to partner. Bidding 4H then passing is the same way you'd bid 8 hearts to the KQJ and out so I think that's criminal since partner has no clue what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I bid 4H then X with these hands a lot and have gotten good results from it so I will continue that. The bidding problem was the round before though, if you are bidding 4H on this you are committed to Xing. Exactly You either double now or do something different on the previous round. How else will partner know you dont have some crap that could be as bad as ♥QJxxxxxx and out or similar at this vulnerability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 At these colors i like to play that X by the preemptor mean intend to bid on but with some defense just in case partner want to pass. So for me this hand is near perfect for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I am wrong a lot :rolleyes: good. that settles it then ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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