Walddk Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=b&n=sajh8532dq10872c62&s=skq10984ha4d5caq103]133|200|Scoring: IMPS: 4SLead: C8[/hv]You are in 4♠ as South after East opened the bidding with a natural 1♣. West leads ♣8 and your 10 wins the first trick. Not a bad contract. Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed? (Please remember that this is the B/I forum, so if you are a more advanced player, perhaps you should wait, alternatively use hidden text). Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no try harder han you will get there :) This is a theme that actually comes up in real life too, good hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Well, it would have to be really freaky distribution to stop.... Ace of clubs, ruff a club, heart to the ace, ruff a club with the ace, small heart. At this point, I've taken two clubs, one heart, and two ruffs, and I have 5 top trumps in my hand. If West ruffs the second club and shoots a spade through, I'll win with the jack, heart to the ace, and ruff a club with the ace. At this point, I'll have taken two clubs, club ruff, spade, and heart, and still have 5 top spades in my hand. If LHO has 7 hearts, I'm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Well, it would have to be really freaky distribution to stop.... Ace of clubs, ruff a club, heart to the ace, ruff a club with the ace, small heart. At this point, I've taken two clubs, one heart, and two ruffs, and I have 5 top trumps in my hand. If West ruffs the second club and shoots a spade through, I'll win with the jack, heart to the ace, and ruff a club with the ace. At this point, I'll have taken two clubs, club ruff, spade, and heart, and still have 5 top spades in my hand. If LHO has 7 hearts, I'm down. You can do better than that, jt. You actually contradict yourself at some point. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Well, it would have to be really freaky distribution to stop.... Ace of clubs, ruff a club, heart to the ace, ruff a club with the ace, small heart. At this point, I've taken two clubs, one heart, and two ruffs, and I have 5 top trumps in my hand. If West ruffs the second club and shoots a spade through, I'll win with the jack, heart to the ace, and ruff a club with the ace. At this point, I'll have taken two clubs, club ruff, spade, and heart, and still have 5 top spades in my hand. If LHO has 7 hearts, I'm down. Hi, 7-0 hearts is not your main risk (or a risk at all), 6-1 clubs are. If LHO ruffs your ace of clubs and plays a spade you will go down. edit: Roland is faster than me :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. Well, given that the problem said "Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed?" I wouldn't call it pedantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. Well, given that the problem said "Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed?" I wouldn't call it pedantic. Right, unless hearts and diamonds are 7-0, clubs 6-1 and spades 5-0. Give me a break. East opened 1♣ and EW never bid again. I am sure all this is likely. I agree with Justin. It's pedantic. By the way, advanced or better players like Han and Arend need not take part as I pointed out in my first post. If you do, say something meaningful. Merry Xmas! Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. Well, given that the problem said "Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed?" I wouldn't call it pedantic. I totally disagree and don't consider it a stretch at all when bridge authors say: "Guarantee the contract against any distribution" for it to mean "Guarantee the contract against any distribution that is possible on the auction" There are several of these "guarantee the contract" type problems where someone preempts and you can guarantee it assuming their 3H opener was not made on a 5 card suit or whatever. Given that I presume experts such as fluffy and cherdano understand the spirit of this problem and what roland is trying to teach I would say nitpicking over a layout that is NOT possible at all takes away from the thread and is the definition of pedantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. The good line is not possible from the play on the first trick either. EDIT: Well ok, anything is possible, and obviously clubs 1-6 are more likelly than hearts 7-0, but playing low club from KJ97xx is a bad play, as it is to pas with 7 hearts, so nothing extraterrestrial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 no Neither do I, They get 2 heart ruffs, 1 diamond and 1 club :( Hi, This is not possible given the bidding as I'm sure you know. Please stop being pedantic, thanks. The good line is not possible from the play on the first trick either. EDIT: Well ok, anything is possible, and obviously clubs 1-6 are more likelly than hearts 7-0, but playing low club from KJ97xx is a bad play, as it is to pas with 7 hearts, so nothing extraterrestrial. You are wrong. If East really is looking at KJ97xx following small never costs. 1) The 8 is a singleton. Doesn't matter what you do.2) The 8 is from a doubleton. Doesn't matter what you do.3) The 8 is from Q108. It doesn't matter what you do.4) The 8 is from Q108x (if they play 3rd). Doesn't matter what you do. South's ace is stiff. So playing low is not bad play at all. Call me naive, but I really thought that at least an expert could do better than that. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 haven't you ever led low from Qx? wow. Anyway, I was not beign pedantic, in part I wondered if there was actually a 100% line I didn't find. EDIT: whatever, sorry justin if you felt offended for me pointing out that. I almost wish you only had a bad day and didn't really wanna offend me, but I felt trully offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 haven't you ever led low from Qx? wow. No, I never encountered a player who leads low from Q8 in partner's suit at trick 1. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Nice. I'd never find a play at the table like this, but I'm happy I saw it almost instantly given that someone told me there was a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 haven't you ever led low from Qx? wow. No, I never encountered a player who leads low from Q8 in partner's suit at trick 1. Roland Hi Roland, I am Wayne nice to meet you :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=b&n=sajh8532dq10872c62&s=skq10984ha4d5caq103]133|200|Scoring: IMPS: 4SLead: C8[/hv]You are in 4♠ as South after East opened the bidding with a natural 1♣. West leads ♣8 and your 10 wins the first trick. Not a bad contract. Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed? (Please remember that this is the B/I forum, so if you are a more advanced player, perhaps you should wait, alternatively use hidden text). Roland win the 10 clubs, and play the ace of clubs, if his holds then ruff a club with the Ace spades and play the j spades to king and pull all trumps and then play the ace hearts if west has singleton clubs, I have no idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Win the C, duck a C and ruff a C high. This way your AC won't be ruffed. Solution above: I am sure the pedants have seen this line too. Don't argue with a pedant; you can't win and you just get pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Win the C, duck a C and ruff a C high. This way your AC won't be ruffed. Solution above: I am sure the pedants have seen this line too. Don't argue with a pedant; you can't win and you just get pissed off. Yeah, I missed it (actually, I saw it after somebody said something, but by then I didn't want to comment). I thought this line would fail when opener had 6-5 in the minors, but you can afford to ruff the diamond high and still pull trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburn Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=b&n=sajh8532dq10872c62&s=skq10984ha4d5caq103]133|200|Scoring: IMPS: 4SLead: C8[/hv]You are in 4♠ as South after East opened the bidding with a natural 1♣. West leads ♣8 and your 10 wins the first trick. Not a bad contract. Can you ensure 10 tricks no matter how the EW cards are distributed?No. The trumps might split badly - i.e. 3-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 //////////// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Win the C, duck a C and ruff a C high. This way your AC won't be ruffed. Solution above: I am sure the pedants have seen this line too. Don't argue with a pedant; you can't win and you just get pissed off.RHO takes the C, returns S, you cross to hand with H A and ruff C.RHO wins you H or D and plays a 4th Club and you A is ruffed by LHO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Win the C, duck a C and ruff a C high. This way your AC won't be ruffed. Solution above: I am sure the pedants have seen this line too. Don't argue with a pedant; you can't win and you just get pissed off.RHO takes the C, returns S, you cross to hand with H A and ruff C.RHO wins you H or D and plays a 4th Club and you A is ruffed by LHO? True, 1 down, but only if you play carelessly. Must you win the spade return in the dummy? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald_21 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Win the C, duck a C and ruff a C high. This way your AC won't be ruffed. Solution above: I am sure the pedants have seen this line too. Don't argue with a pedant; you can't win and you just get pissed off.RHO takes the C, returns S, you cross to hand with H A and ruff C.RHO wins you H or D and plays a 4th Club and you A is ruffed by LHO? You do not win the spade in dummy so you still have the heart ace to pull the trumps. (edit: sorry, I did not see that Roland had already replied) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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