Takeout or Penalty

[jtfanclub]

Opening bid by partner is 2♦, a weak 2 with diamonds.

Next player bids 2♠

You decide to double.

 

What sort of hand do you have? For the regular partners you play weak 2♦ with (if any) and for a good random partner?

 

I'm having a disagreement with one of my partners- he thinks it should be penalty. I think it should be takeout: usually 5-6 hearts and 3 diamonds and somewhere around 10-12 hcp.

 

Who do you think is right, if either of us?

[mike777]

Penalty....LOUD!

[Guest Jlall]

Clearly penalty, partner has limited his hand fairly narrowly in both points and shape. If you have 6 hearts and 3 diamonds the opponents have a lot of spades, just bid some number of diamonds. One of the biggest advantages of preempts is that the opponents have to overcall at a level that is inherently unsafe given the quality of their hand, and that if they catch an unlucky layout you can easily double them.

[Walddk]

Penalty because partner has announced that he has a weak one-suiter. Therefore it makes no sense to make him show a second suit he can't have. If responder has hearts (5+), he can bid them, and if he has diamond support, he supports. If he has both, he has a choice.

 

When teaching students responses to a weak two you always stress that you can't find a 4-4 fit in a major because opener should not have four cards of a major on the side.

 

If double shows the kind of hand you suggest, you must wait too long to get it, and, when you get it, your opponents will outbid you in spades anyway.

 

Roland

[cherdano]

Clearly penalty, pickup or not.

[helene_t]

The reason this must be penalty is:

- One of the main purposes for preempting is to force opps to enter the auction at an uncomfortable level and then nail them.

- The alternative, to pass and hope for opener to reopen with a double, is not an option because another part of the reason for preempting is to make opps' auction inaccurate so that they may over- or underbid, Or reach the wrong strain. Sometimes responder can see that they have underbid in that he has too little defense to defeat 4♠ but they have stopped in 2♠. In that case he wants to defend undoubled, he doesn't want his p to reopen. In other cases responder can see they are in the wrong strain and may find the right one if we double them. So opener never reopens.

 

There are other doubles that are penalty by convention, In particular, if there is no clear captaincy and/or if it would be relatively rare that responder wants to defend undoubled and/or if we realy need the extra bidding space from the t/o doubles, one can agree to play dbl as t/o. But this one simply cannot be played as t/o.

[Fluffy]

I've seen it played as take out (meaning pass if you have spades or bid hearts otherwise). But I don't knwo if its good or not.

[helene_t]

Gonzalo, it was not multi :P

[P_Marlowe]

Penalty.

 

I guess it depends on the weak two

style you are playing, but I play one,

which describes my partners hand fairly

tight, and I am not going to look for a

partial in another suit.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[han]

PENALTY

[andy_h]

Penalty because preempts work.

Partner's shown a self suiter, can't expect him to have a 2nd suit for t/o.

[Gerben42]

Penalty, but T/O if 2♦ was Fantunes :P

[whereagles]

I use to play 5 card weak twos and, in that case, I normally agree with pard that dbl = take out up to 3♣.

 

yeah, I know this isn't usual. BUT IT WORKS.

[bid_em_up]

Opening bid by partner is 2♦, a weak 2 with diamonds.

Next player bids 2♠

You decide to double.

 

What sort of hand do you have? For the regular partners you play weak 2♦ with (if any) and for a good random partner?

 

I'm having a disagreement with one of my partners- he thinks it should be penalty. I think it should be takeout: usually 5-6 hearts and 3 diamonds and somewhere around 10-12 hcp.

 

Who do you think is right, if either of us?

100% penalty.

 

Apologize to your partner immediately. :)

[jtfanclub]

Apologize to your partner immediately. :)

It had come up because the opponents had done a takeout X in these circumstances and not alerted it. We don't play a weak 2♦ opener.

 

But I certainly admitted how wrong I was. He has a much better feel for what's 'standard' than I do, but every once in a while I feel a need to verify these things.