2/1 4-card support and source of tricks

[dicklont]

In his book "25 steps to learning 2/1" Paul Thurston introduces the way to support partner with 4 card support MF values and a source of tricks.

 

For example, you hold:

♠ KQ64

♥ A6

♦ 65

♣ AK1064

 

When partner opens 1♠ you bid 2♣ an support the spades later.

1♠ - 2♣

2♦ - 2♠

therefore shows such a hand.

 

What confuses me is the what is should do with 3-card spade support and MF values. I guess I should wait another round before supporting the spades, but will that work out ok?

[glen]

This is the first time I've heard of MotherF values used in bridge, but it seems quite a distinct and well defined term. At the club, best to keep it short: "show those MF values already!"

 

With my wife and I, we would jump to 3♠, at the second time for responder to bid, to show 4+♠s and a good hand with some slam interest. Thus the 2♠ bid shows exactly 3, and suggests opener shape out or ship out.

 

I would bet that Paul would recommend that responder show the ♠ support at the 2nd time to bid, regardless of whether 3 or 4. Best to reveal that MF support as soon as possible.

[gwnn]

This is the first time I've heard of MotherF values used in bridge, but it seems quite a distinct and well defined term. At the club, best to keep it short: "show those MF values already!"

 

With my wife and I, we would jump to 3♠, at the second time for responder to bid, to show 4+♠s and a good hand with some slam interest. Thus the 2♠ bid shows exactly 3, and suggests opener shape out or ship out.

 

I would bet that Paul would recommend that responder show the ♠ support at the 2nd time to bid, regardless of whether 3 or 4. Best to reveal that MF support as soon as possible.

:) :D :D

[helene_t]

This sounds very weired.A delayed 2♠ might even be a doubleton in some styles (we have had that discussion before). I wouldn't even be confident that 3♠ would promise 4. And if opener rebids 2NT (or reverses, although that's not an issue in the specific 1♠-2♣ case), we can't distinguish between a simple delayed raise and a delayed jump raise.

 

I think would prefer to play

1♠-2NT

3♣*

as initiating a relay sequence, and allow responder to show a source of tricks as part of the relay structure. If you can't show all the hands you want via the relays, add some extra raise to the Jacoby 2NT, for example some strong variants in the Bergen raises (if you play them).

 

When you have 4-card support but don't show it immediately, there is the risk that opener's RHO preempts. How are you supposed to show your good support after

1♠-(p)-2♣-(4♥)

pass-(p)-?

[foo]

Vanilla 2/1 GF

 

1S-2foo;2bar-2S shows a GF hand with a side suit and =either= 3+S or 4+S.

 

Jumps such as

1S-2foo;2bar-3S are usually reserved as "picture bids" showing special hands that are agreed to within the parthership.

 

See Fred's excellent articles on improving 2/1 GF in this site's library as a good example of some reasonable expert agreements as to what jumps and jump raises should show in 2/1 GF auctions.

[jdonn]

The basic answer is if you 2/1 with four card support, you can't ever show that unless you make a picture jump next round. You simply bid the same way you would with 3 card support but upgrade your hand a bit.

[joshs]

That would confuse me also, especially when you have a nice descriptive 3S bid available the 2'nd round to show strong trump support and a strong 2/1 suit...

 

But keep in mind you will not always be able to show the 4 card support if you 2/1, so you have to figure out what is your most important feature: is it the 2/1 suit or is it the 4'th trump? The main question in determining if you should 2/1 or bid jacoby or splinter with 4 card support and a 5 card suit is:

how important is it that partner has fitting honors?

If you 5 card suit is xxxxx, then you prefer partner to have a singleton in the suit, and you should show the 4 card support immediately. You don't want partner to like his Kx or Qx holding in that suit.

 

If your 5 card suit is something like KQxxx, AQxxx, KJxxx where a fitting honor is golddust then you should definitely 2/1 in preference to jacoby or a splinter.

 

Holdings like Axxxx is not great for a 2/1 since a singleton opposite is good and Qx or Qxx is bad. With this kind of holding its often better to show the 4 card support directly (your most important feature).

 

On the other hand KQx opposite your suit is golddust and you will never work that out unless you 2/1.

 

With AKxxx you should generally 2/1 since 1 honor opposite soldifies the suit. But the holding is still good opposite xx or a singleton, so with a strong 4 card trump support you should bid agressively with this hand.

 

With Kxxxx you should 2/1 even though you have a worse hand than with Axxxx since a singleton opposite is bad for you, but either the A or the Q opposite will improve the suit greatly so you need your partner to evaluate his hand.

[BillHiggin]

I have studied the issue of support with a side suit as a source of tricks quite extensively (does not imply that I now know a lot!). The ambiguity between true raises (ignoring the 3/4 card support part at least for now) and balanced GF hands with modest support is indeed a true issue for most systems.

 

The Italian methods from Ambra come closest to dealing directly with that. They use a 2♣ response as either a natural (maybe just invitational in Ambra) bid or some balanced GF (even with just 2 clubs). They have a relay structure over that bid, but responder may break the relay to show:

1) Invitational club hand (usually 3♣)

2) GF club hand (usually 3♦)

3) GF raise with clubs as a source of tricks (usually 3M)

 

Perhaps the most troubling hand to respond with is one with spades as a source of tricks, GF values and heart support (over a 1♥ opening). Since 1♠ neither establishes the GF nor shows the support, there are opener rebids (3♥ is the most troubling) that leave responder in an awkward position. I strongly believe that a 2♠ response to 1♥ should at least include that possibility (a full Soloway jump shift does that) even if other responder jumps have differing agreements.