Takeout or Penalty

[Codo]

Maybe this is more a a georaphicasl issue. As far as I read the comments, it is 100 % penalty in the US but at most 10 % in Europe?

 

And for the value of pen. or take out:

 

How often do I have AKJxx in a suit opener rebids and how often do I have a hand like davids examples of ♠76 ♥AQ32 ♦J4 ♣A7632?

 

And what are my solutions if I have AKJxx and no pen. double? 3 NT maybe? Or sit and wait?

 

What are my solutions for ♠76 ♥AQ32 ♦J4 ♣A7632 after

1 ♦ pass pass 1 ♠ 2 ♦ without a take out double?

 

I prefer take out and would believe that this is standard at least in Germany.

[Finch]

And for the value of pen. or take out:

 

How often do I have AKJxx in a suit opener rebids and how often do I have a hand like davids examples of ♠76 ♥AQ32 ♦J4 ♣A7632?

To be honest, although I've agreed this as take-out, in the last 5 years or so

 

- I have made a take-out double once

- I have a seen a hand suitable for a penalty double twice:

 

i) there was a large penalty after 4th hand reopened (flat board in 800)

 

ii) we went for 300 undoubled in our 6-0 fit, but this was the best result available for the defending side as we had an alternative 5-3 fit that was at most 1 off and may have been making

 

Not exactly conclusive, and not that high on my list of things to worry about.

[whereagles]

Well, that's an interesting experience, which contradicts mine. Perhaps the subject deserves a statistical study more than we thought.

[Walddk]

Michael Askgaard (MFA) and I play it differently so there is evidently not a consensus among experts even in a small country like ours. I know for a fact that two of Michael's team-mates next season play double as take-out. Both approaches are no doubt fine as long as you have a firm agreement.

 

Over the years I have subscribed to a rule that, if nothing else, is easy to remember:

 

Double of low level contracts are for take-out unless it's obvious that the opponents have a misfit, or if preceded by redouble (good hand).

 

It is not clear to me that the opponents have a misfit if the bidding goes ...

 

1♣ pass pass 1♥

2♣

 

Roland

[mcphee]

The balancing hand failed to balanced with

1. intermediate jump o/c

2. 1NT relatively balanced hand with some number of the enemy suit. usually 3+

3. dble for t/o showing support for other suits and protecting the passed hand.

 

The balancing hand might be 5-4-2-2 and not very strong. The hand that rebid the opened suit has generally 6+ cards and could have a reasonbable hand in view of partner failure to bid, so they have nada really. Now it is true the hand who opened and rebid might be a terrible player who paid his card fees and intends to play 97% of all hands and to hell with what partner happens to think.

 

It makes far more sense to be that this dble should be to compete. As David Burn showed there happen to be a few hands that fall into this group. How many hand types do you get this chance to smash the guy for penalty? Especially opposite a hand that has only balanced and may have not so much defensively?

 

Low level penalty dbles is a hard way to get good results.

[keylime]

Sabine's book has a textbook example of this auction, and the hand involved was a flat 4333 NT overcall with a very strong suit of opener's.

[whereagles]

Low level penalty dbles is a hard way to get good results.

huh.. not true. It is precisely at low level that penalties are more juicy. It's hard to set a voluntarily bid game/slam by a lot, but it's common to murder 2/3-something on a misfit.