udca

[kgr]

pick up partner's profile on BBO says udca and you agreed to play his profile.

What does udca include, Is it only when following suit or also when discarding?

[mike777]

I would assume only upside down count and attitude 100% throughout the entire deal. Not upside down suit preference. If partner prefers upside down suit pref. she can always tell us next hand in a pick up partnership.

[pclayton]

It usually includes discards. Just as low would encourage when pard leads a high card, a low discard indicates interest in the suit.

[foo]

pick up partner's profile on BBO says udca and you agreed to play his profile.

What does udca include, Is it only when following suit or also when discarding?

UDCA stands for "Upside Down Count and Attitude"

 

It is only for count and attitude situations. It does not apply to discarding situations.

 

Agreements about discarding methods are properly s separate discussion.

[han]

I would assume it also holds for discards.

[jdonn]

Also when discarding.

[neilkaz]

I would assume it also holds for discards.

Yes as I commonly play it and clearly prefer it to "standard".

[ArtK78]

UDCA applies to every situation in which either count or attitude is shown (unless you have a specific agreement to the contrary, such as odd-even first discard).

[paulg]

When I see udca I assume it means signals and discards until I see compelling evidence to the contrary.

[Finch]

When I see udca I assume it means signals and discards until I see compelling evidence to the contrary.

So would I.

[kgr]

Thanks all!!

(I play a lot of pick up games on BBO. Up till now I avoided udca profiles because it was not clear if that would also include discards. I'll be more confortable with this now)

[finally17]

I don't think it includes discards...looking at an ACBL convention card, there are separate boxes for upside down count, upside down attitude, and discard preferences. Seems to me that that's a good guideline for what's included.

 

However, in my experience, most people on BBO seem to think that it includes discards, so I act like it does there, until I'm told otherwise.

 

The other day, someone asked my partner and I what are carding methods were, and I said "UDCA" while she said "odd/even" and our opp responded "good to know you agree" to which we both said something to the effect of "we didn't disagree." But our opps' position seems to be the norm there.

[blackshoe]

I don't think it includes discards...looking at an ACBL convention card, there are separate boxes for upside down count, upside down attitude, and discard preferences. Seems to me that that's a good guideline for what's included.

"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.". -- G.B. Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra, Act II. :(

 

Different jurisdictions have different convention cards - and different ways of doing various things.

[finally17]

"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.". -- G.B. Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra, Act II. :(

 

Different jurisdictions have different convention cards - and different ways of doing various things.

No kidding? Well gee, I didn't know that.

 

Roll your eyes all you want. The ACBL prints and sells a standard one, which is the one I'm referring to. And in case you're not in the US, I think my usage of the word GUIDELINE was pretty clear.

 

In fact, here's a link to a PDF of it, straight from their website. Check it out! ACBL convention card

 

You will note in the bottom left hand corner of what might be referred to as the "top side" that there is a small box called "defensive carding." First are options for standard, then for upside down, and THEN for first discards.

 

I've no wish to get into a flame war here, so I'm not going to. But do you realize how pompous you look quoting Shakespeare so rudely, in particular when you're blatantly wrong?

[jdonn]

I don't know where you get this from. The section on discards is for special conventions, it has nothing to do with general discarding agreements. If you have no special discarding agreement such as odd/even (which would thus override any general agreement), then your first discard must!!! be count or attitude and is thus upside down. What else could it be, unless you want to argue it's not a signal at all?

[paulg]

I've no wish to get into a flame war here, so I'm not going to.  But do you realize how pompous you look quoting Shakespeare so rudely, in particular when you're blatantly wrong?

 

As you are in the ACBL, I'd have thought that you knew that abusing an ACBL TD, as you've just done, is a ZT offense.

[Walddk]

I don't know what the ACBL intention is, but regarding "1st discard" it's pretty clear where I live (Denmark). First you are asked what kind of attitude you use, then the same about count, and finally 1st discard.

 

The intention is to make it clear to the opponents whether you use attitude or count for your 1st discard. Example (most common here):

 

Attitude: upside-down.

Count: upside-down.

1st discard: attitude.

 

Roland

[finally17]

I've no wish to get into a flame war here, so I'm not going to.  But do you realize how pompous you look quoting Shakespeare so rudely, in particular when you're blatantly wrong?

 

As you are in the ACBL, I'd have thought that you knew that abusing an ACBL TD, as you've just done, is a ZT offense.

I didn't abuse anyone. I told someone that "rolls eyes" and the quoting of Shakespeare in some misguided attempt to call someone ignorant of cultural differences over this matter is pompous and rude. Not to mention stupid. I stand by that.

[finally17]

I don't know where you get this from. The section on discards is for special conventions, it has nothing to do with general discarding agreements. If you have no special discarding agreement such as odd/even (which would thus override any general agreement), then your first discard must!!! be count or attitude and is thus upside down. What else could it be, unless you want to argue it's not a signal at all?

It's a whole section on "Defensive Agreements," which asks whether you're standard or upside down, and then lists discards, including a blank line. There's nothing at all to imply to me that it's specifically there for "special conventions." My interpretation is at least as valid as yours.

 

Furthermore, I think it's a stretch to assume that because you don't agree to o/e or lav (or fill in the blank line), you have an implicit agreement. I think rather that most people who take the time to fill out a real card and play a serious game together, if they don't have an explicit agreement, don't really have an agreement at all, most likely because they haven't attained a level where paying attention to discards helps them.

 

But whatever, it's really not worth debating. The "eye roll" response got my dander up, but I don't really care beyond that.

[blackshoe]

I've no wish to get into a flame war here, so I'm not going to. But do you realize how pompous you look quoting Shakespeare so rudely, in particular when you're blatantly wrong?

So you make a post that looks an awful lot like a blatant attempt to start a flame war? Sorry, ace, I've seen that tactic before. Not gonna work.

 

Either PM me, or post publicly, I don't care which, but don't waste my time by doing both.

 

GB Shaw ≠ William Shakespeare.

[Codo]

It's a whole section on "Defensive Agreements," which asks whether you're standard or upside down, and then lists discards, including a blank line. There's nothing at all to imply to me that it's specifically there for "special conventions." My interpretation is at least as valid as yours.

 

Furthermore, I think it's a stretch to assume that because you don't agree to o/e or lav (or fill in the blank line), you have an implicit agreement. I think rather that most people who take the time to fill out a real card and play a serious game together, if they don't have an explicit agreement, don't really have an agreement at all, most likely because they haven't attained a level where paying attention to discards helps them.

 

But whatever, it's really not worth debating. The "eye roll" response got my dander up, but I don't really care beyond that.

1. Maybe Josh had seen some hundred CCs more then you? So maybe his assumtion has a little more merrit then yours? Hey, maybe he even had been uproad, to play bridge in other countries?

 

2. How many pairs do you know who play udca for carding and attitude but std while discarding? There are lovers for anything, but this species is quite a rare bird. I know zero.

 

3. If I agree on std. or udca, it is a 100 % certinity that my discards are the same.

And I never ever met a partner who disagreed. So there is an agreement, yes. And this agreement is so obvious that I never ever talk with my new partners about it. We talk about std. or att. and discards direct or lav. That is it.

 

4. There are too many people on this planet and even in this forum who try to defend silly statements even after being proven wrong. I hope you don´t join these guys. But I think you will.

[finally17]

But whatever, it's really not worth debating. The "eye roll" response got my dander up, but I don't really care beyond that.

 

4. There are too many people on this planet and even in this forum who try to defend silly statements even after being proven wrong. I hope you don´t join these guys. But I think you will.

Beyond the below, I'm completely done with this discussion. It's gone on too long as it is. Feel free to have the last word.

 

I didn't make a silly statement, and no one came close to proving it wrong.

 

My statement said "I think" followed by "guideline," and was a well-reasoned explanation of why I come down on one side of this argument as opposed to the other. In other words:

 

"This is my interpretation, and here's why, BUT I make no such assumption on BBO."

 

It would take a ruling body defining UDCA as one way or the other for anyone to be right.

 

I got responses of obscure literary quotes (Shaw, not Shakespeare, it was late, but really, on point correction!) implying some lack of culture, and rather futile attempts to prove me wrong. Josh's was the only reasonable effort (that considered my reference point and argued why he disagreed with my interp. of it), and I happen to disagree. Until such time as you all can demonstrate that my interpretation is factually, or simply logically, impossible(don't take this as a challenge), maybe you should all just agree to disagree with me.

 

The worst among us (which might be me) should be aware how dangerous it is to assume defaults in this game, especially in something so basic you will encounter it nearly 50% of hands you pick up.

[finally17]

My public apologies for comments about "eye rolls." The smiley printed out in the quotes as the "eyes roll" or some such, and this is what I read.

 

The rest I stand by.

[jdonn]

Beyond the below, I'm completely done with this discussion.  It's gone on too long as it is.  Feel free to have the last word.

How can anyone else not have the last word? Sorry but your entire response to anyone who disagrees (which seems to be everyone) is "my belief is as true as anyone else's and nothing can change that no matter what anyone says." I don't mean to seem harsh about it, but your entire position seems to be you are determined to disagree with any view point but the one you have already decided you believe, so you lend little credence to the counter arguments. For example regarding my first post, no it's not labeled "special discarding conventions" but it lists nothing but special discarding conventions in that section! Common sense is allowed.

 

Just answer this. If you check nothing in the discarding section and you have agreed UDCA, what do you think the first discard means? Standard count/attitude?

[brianshark]

UDCA means that whenever you are showing attitude, it is upside down attitude and whenever you are showing count, it is upside down count.

 

Without agreement, partner's discard means nothing. But if you agree (or decide that it is a standard treatment) to show an attitude signal on your first discard then playing UDCA, you may assume it means upside down attitude.