Plenty to choose from

[jdonn]

So, what type of hand would people wat for a 2♣ cue?

This would be my opinion. If you are treating this as a balanced hand, then only on a maximum with no stopper in their suit. If you are treating it as a suit hand (bidding 2♠ next), then either a better hand than this, or a hand with 4-4 in the majors to figure out which one is better.

[mike777]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sa874h764da85ckj2]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♣ - pass - pass - dbl

pass

 

RHO opens 1♣ (normally 4+), you decide to pass and so does LHO. Your partner doubles in the balancing seat, and opener passes.

 

Plenty to choose from. What is your call?

 

Roland

1) 2nt

2) prefer to double over one club opening, so sue me. :P

[mikeh]

I voted 2N before looking at the posts, and I see nothing there to make me change my vote. While 4333 and no apparent texture is bad, the (probable) positional values in clubs, the 2 Aces and a K make me upgrade, while we should also benefit from the advantage that accrues to a declarer who knows where (virtually) all the missing hcp are. If partner has a modest 13 count, he's passing 1N and I'd expect to make game half the time (or more) when he holds that kind of hand.

 

I agree with those who reject spades as a denomination. This hand shouts notrump unless partner has the hand to suggest otherwise at his next call.

[jdonn]

Lets say your range for 2NT starts at 13 (obviously if it starts at 12 there is no problem.) Then you can upgrade with 12 when you want of course, but I think it's silly to use the reason, as many people have, that the hand will play well because the opponents' strength is all in one hand. That factor would always exist on this auction, so it is already inherent in the range of 2NT. Or to put it another way, it should be used when deciding to accept or reject an invitation, but not to change the range of a bid. After all if you always use that excuse on this auction, your range really starts at 12 anyway.

 

I also don't think partner is passing a normal 13, at least not with me where my 1NT range is 9-12. HE is the one who will use the logic that the hand should play well, and invite with the 13 or even 12. But I won't be higher than needed when he has a light balancing double. Of course the payoff is when I hold less than 9 I can't bid 1NT any more, but that might not be a bad thing...

[han]

The vote is now 10-9 in favor of 1NT over 2NT, which makes me think that I was right to bid 2S. :P

[Codo]

The vote is now 10-9 in favor of 1NT over 2NT, which makes me think that I was right to bid 2S. :P

Yes that is nice reasoning: If the hand is borderline between 1 and 2 NT, I bid 2 Spade.

You should use this approach everywhere:

 

If you are not sure to finesse into KJx in dummy or into ATx in your hand, then play for the drop.

 

Shallyou take the Cheesburger or the Chicken wings? Its 50:50, okay then take the salad.

 

Shall you marry Jill or Joan? You cannot decide, so take Sally.

 

Great idea. :P

[the hog]

My first though was 2NT and there is nothing really wrong with that bid. However I like 1S!

 

Don't scoff. Pd may well be light in the pass out seat, as second hand could quite easily have up to a balanced 15 or so. 1S won't end the auction. If pd bids again and shows a good takeout X I have an easy 3NT call, If pd happens to pass and rho passes, well I don't think we had a game. If pd passes and rho bids I can then judge what to do. The more I think about it, the more I like this bid.

[Vlastik]

I vote for 1N, even 2N is very close.

 

Cheers, Vlastimil

[helene_t]

I suppose the book bid is 2♠ but this hand tastes like 2NT. I voted 1NT but thinking more about it, the hand should revaluate to 13 because of the well-placed club honours.

[whereagles]

So, what type of hand would people wat for a 2♣ cue?

My agreement is

 

13+ and 1-2 major(s) OR

10+ and 2 majors

[Walddk]

Part 2:

A majority for 1NT which South chose at the table (what I would have bid myself actually). Anyway, over your 1NT partner proceeds with 2♠.

 

How much do you expect him to have and what is your next call?

 

Roland

[whereagles]

Expect a 14+ hand with 5 spades. I'll bid 3♠ to show my support and leave some room for pard to say what his intentions are.

[helene_t]

I think 2♠ is forcing for one round only so I have to bid 4♠ or maybe even 3/4♣.

[hrothgar]

Part 2:

A majority for 1NT which South chose at the table (what I would have bid myself actually). Anyway, over your 1NT partner proceeds with 2♠.

 

How much do you expect him to have and what is your next call?

 

Roland

I expect a good 16 count

 

(I suspect that this will be slightly higher than most folks. My expectations for a balancing jump overcall is ~11- 15 or so. Around here, most folks seem to expect 9 - 13 or some such)

 

My choice of bids depends on cue bidding style. I'll either bid 3♣ or 3♦ depending on whether I show first or first/second round controls.

[Edmunte1]

I agree with 1NT due to bad shape and lack of intermediattes. 2♠ shows 15++ and 5+♠ me (GOSH in passout seat can be about 2 hcp weaker).

Now i'll bid 3♣ (fit in spade, slam interest)

[Walddk]

I agree with 1NT due to bad shape and lack of intermediattes. 2♠ shows 15++ and 5+♠ me (GOSH in passout seat can be about 2 hcp weaker).

Now i'll bid 3♣ (fit in spade, slam interest)

I like that. 3♣ must indeed show a fit for spades and a maximum. That's what I have.

 

Roland

[Apollo81]

Yes, clearly worth a 3♣ bid here since you have the best possible hand for your bidding.

[whereagles]

Unless you play that NT bids promise stoppers, I don't see why 3♣ must show a fit.

[Guest Jlall]

I would go with 2N, 1N a close second. I just generally overbid in these situations and try not to miss games ever.

 

Han I don't agree with your logic on 2S instead of 1N or 2N because its a heavy 1N or a light 2N. The hand is still clearly NT oriented and loses a lot of its value playing in a suit. I think bidding some number of NT is clear, even if you cant quite show your values as well as a 2S bid.

[finally17]

I voted 1N. I trust partner to find another call if he had an actual reason to bid, in which case we won't miss anything. Even if he's got 10-11 (and I agree with those who let him have as little as 8), 1N will be high enough.

[Walddk]

Unless you play that NT bids promise stoppers, I don't see why 3♣ must show a fit.

If 1NT does not promise a club stop, you surely must have a better bid available. OK, for the sake of argument let's assume that it doesn't, what else can 3♣ mean?

 

RHO opened a natural (4+) 1♣. What do you want 3♣ to be if not a fit for spades? I assume we agree that, for a couple of reasons, it can't be a suit.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

Unless you play that NT bids promise stoppers, I don't see why 3♣ must show a fit.

Of course it promises stoppers. Well maybe I would bid 2NT on Axx-Axx-AKx-xxxx but then I would have chosen the smallest lie. And I'm not even sure I would bid 2NT with that hand, might bid 2♣.

[han]

Han I don't agree with your logic on 2S instead of 1N or 2N because its a heavy 1N or a light 2N. The hand is still clearly NT oriented and loses a lot of its value playing in a suit. I think bidding some number of NT is clear, even if you cant quite show your values as well as a 2S bid.

OK. thanks for the feedback.

 

 

Regarding the second part of the question, I think it is a "3C wtp" hand. Partner has shown a strong hand (I'd say at least a nice 16-count) and we havee great support and good cards.

[benlessard]

Close call between 1Nt and 2Nt.

 

Usually over 1C X 1Nt is stronger then over 1M X. (bidding a 3 card suit at the 1 level with weaker hand give me no problem at all). So with a partner that plays the same way ill bid 1Nt. Otherwise ill bid 2Nt.

[Walddk]

Regarding the second part of the question, I think it is a "3C wtp" hand. Partner has shown a strong hand (I'd say at least a nice 16-count) and we havee great support and good cards.

So you are saying that 1♠ in the balancing seat could be up to 15. Fine with me, but I am not sure everyone agrees. I could be wrong but my impression is that most people think it has a lower limit in 4th.

 

Roland