JanM Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 The USBF will hold two Junior Trials in 2008, one for teams attempting to qualify for the WBF Patino Cup (26 & under) and Damiani Cup (21 and under) in Beijing October 4-13 and one for teams attempting to qualify for the FISU games in Lodz, Poland Sept. 2-9. Both Trials will be held in Las Vegas before and at the beginning of the 2008 Summer NABC. Both will be team trials. Current plans are to allow teams of 4, 5 or 6 players to compete in both trials. The "WBF Trials" will be held on Tuesday and Wednesday, July 15 & 16. Advance entries will be required and the event will either start with a Round Robin to cut to 4 teams or with a Round of 8 (or if only 4 teams enter with the Semi-finals). Exact match lengths still to be decided. Teams must consist of USBF active members who were born in 1982 or later. Players who wish to compete in the Damiani Cup event (players born in 1987 or later) must compete in these Trials but do not need to play on a team all of whose players are under 21 - the USBF Damiani Cup team will be chosen from eligible players who competed in the "WBF trials." The winner of the "WBF Trials" will be the USBF team for the Patino Cup (the team will be required to augment to 6 if it has fewer than 6 players). The "FISU Trials" will be held either on Thursday and Friday, July 17 & 18 or on Saturday and Sunday, July 19 & 20, depending on when the ACBL Intercollegiate Championship finals are held. The FISU Trials event will be a team event for teams with 4, 5, or 6 players. The USBF will send 2 teams to the FISU championships. The winner of the FISU Trials will be one of those teams. How the other team is to be chosen is still TBD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 What is the age requirement for the FISU Trials? What is the minimum number of credits participants must be taking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Was any consideration given to the second week/end for these trials? Seems like there might be a fair # of people who would be interested in playing in GNTs and the trials, which now conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I take it the event date listed on this page is wrong http://www.fisu.net/site/page_1445.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMeck Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yea, terrible idea to schedule the trials for those dates, probbably that many of the potential participants will have commitments for the GNTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 The Junior Committee discussed at length whether to hold these Trials before the NABC or during the second weekend. There was general agreement that there were likely to be more conflicts at the end of the tournament than for the GNTs. Unfortunately, there is also general agreement that the Junior Trials need to be scheduled either immediately before or during the Summer NABC, rather than as a separate stand-alone event. The Junior Committee meetings are open to anyone who wishes to attend. The scheduling of the Trials was discussed at the Nashville and San Francisco meetings. With regard to the FISU website you point to, I am now confused. We've consistently been told that the FISU event was scheduled for Sept. 2-9. I will try to find out which dates are correct and thank you for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMeck Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Seems to me that the best way to achieve maximum attendance would be to schedule it so that there are no conflicts, anything during the nationals has major conflicts, obviously cost issue would seem to not suggest a completely standalone event, but surely it could be attached to a regional as with the senior trials or just put with the open trials which would basically eliminate the cost issue, do not know about meetings, but was there discussion of holding it at a regional in stead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I believe that the information at http://www.fisu.net/site/page_1445.php is in fact wrong. If you click on the link on the right hand side of that page for the event website http://www.bridge2008.net you will find the September dates we've seen elsewhere. I will email the organizers to make sure, but I think that the June dates are simply a mistake, probably arising out of the entry closing date which is June 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Seems to me that the best way to achieve maximum attendance would be to schedule it so that there are no conflicts, anything during the nationals has major conflicts, obviously cost issue would seem to not suggest a completely standalone event, but surely it could be attached to a regional as with the senior trials or just put with the open trials which would basically eliminate the cost issue, do not know about meetings, but was there discussion of holding it at a regional in stead? Yes, there was discussion of holding it at a Regional and that was not a popular choice. The problem is cost & scheduling for the players, in case that wasn't clear. Holding it with the Open Trials wouldn't help that at all and would cause problems in some years for players who wish to play in both the Open and Junior Trials. Even this year, with the Under 28 team not being selected by a trials, I know of one Junior who plans to play in both the Open and Junior Trials (and that is not to say there aren't others, just that at this moment I only happen to know of one). There are usually fewer Juniors in the GNTs than in the mini-Spingolds and the final weekend Swiss, which are the other possible Summer NABC conflicts. Most people thought that adding another two days to the Summer NABC would be unattractive to the players, even if the space were available then. There is general agreement that it needs to be in the summer, so that people who are in school don't have a conflict. The consensus was that more Juniors come to the NABC than to any Regional and that they shouldn't have to make a special trip for the Junior Trials. Conflicting with the GNTs isn't a perfect solution, but there just isn't a perfect solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Given the GNT conflict issue, does it make sense to do the FISU trials Sat-Sun and the Intercollegiate Championship Thu-Fri? I would imagine there would be fewer players wanting to play in the GNT and Intercollegiate than the GNT and FISU trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 The scheduling of the Intercollegiate finals is up to ACBL. We are hoping that they will decide to schedule them for Thursday-Friday, so that the FISU trials can be on Saturday-Sunday, so it doesn't conflict with the GNT (although it does of course conflict with the Life Master Pairs) and also so that the players in the Intercollegiate finals will have an opportunity to meet other players and form teams for the FISU, for which all players don't have to be from one University. I have not yet heard whether that will work out, hence the uncertainty about the dates for the FISU trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 What is the age requirement for the FISU Trials? What is the minimum number of credits participants must be taking? I can answer one of my own questions: "AGE LIMIT:The competitors must be born between January 1st, 1980 and December 31st, 1990." From http://www.bridge2008.net/ INFO tab I don't see the answer to the credits question on their site though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 I think that the answer to the credits question is pretty vague - as I understand it, it's up to your University to "certify" you as eligible. I suspect that different universities may have different ideas about what that means. But I'm just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 The scheduling of the Intercollegiate finals is up to ACBL. We are hoping that they will decide to schedule them for Thursday-Friday, so that the FISU trials can be on Saturday-Sunday, so it doesn't conflict with the GNT (although it does of course conflict with the Life Master Pairs) and also so that the players in the Intercollegiate finals will have an opportunity to meet other players and form teams for the FISU, for which all players don't have to be from one University. I have not yet heard whether that will work out, hence the uncertainty about the dates for the FISU trials. Is this likely to be settled by the end of the spring NABC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 I expect that it will be settled in the next few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 I heard back very promptly from the FISU organizers, and the September dates are correct - September 2-9, 2008 in Lodz, Poland for the FISU tournament. They apologized for the confusion which was apparently caused by slow updating of the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Jan, Please comment on the content of this? http://www.bridgeiscool.com/CollegeBridgeC...nnouncement.pdf Thx-Noble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Jan, Please comment on the content of this? http://www.bridgeiscool.com/CollegeBridgeC...nnouncement.pdf Thx-Noble In particular, re this statement: "This year, the highest-placing team consisting entirely of U.S. citizens will be nominated by the ACBL to the United States Bridge Federation as team USA #1 for the 2008 World University Games in Lodz, Poland. (The USBF, at their sole discretion, may accept or reject this nomination.)" Why would the ACBL think that a team of players, born 1983 or later, each taking at least 7 credits, all from the same university would constitute a good team at the international level, where the requirements are 1980 or later, no specific credit requirement, and not necessarily all from the same university? It just makes no sense at all. I realize of course that the USBF is under no obligation to listen to the ACBL, as the last sentence says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Actually, now that I think about it, is US citizenship required for a person to be on a USBF international team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Actually, now that I think about it, is US citizenship required for a person to be on a USBF international team? I agree the US citizen part sounds funny. I wonder, though, if it may be a way of dealing with the idea of foreign students (who are students at American universities, but not considered residents)? Although if that were true, maybe they just would say are "US residents", so my guess is likely wrong. -Elianna, who is sad that's she's too old by any mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I'm sure Jan will also comment, but this was discussed a little bit at the meeting. The fact that the FISU trials are hopefully going to be after the collegiates suggests to me that while the college winners are encouraged to play in them and probably have a good chance to make the team, they are welcome to pick up teammates or partners from other schools. I do think that promoting the collegiates and encouraging people to participate in the fisu trials is a fine idea. Also, we're apparently sending two teams, which gives some wiggling room. I'm not sure there's going to be an enormous turnout of non-acbl-collegiate people for the fisu trials, so I don't think this is false encouragement even if they are going to have to play in the trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 The announcement you saw was published before our Junior Committee meeting in San Francisco. The reason for the "wiggle room" was to let us decide what would be most sensible. As Karlson said, at the meeting several people suggested that Intercollegiate players might be happier to form teams with players from other schools than to be locked into the team with which they competed in the Intercollegiates. That's why we're hoping that ACBL can change the dates of the Intercollegiate finals to Thursday and Friday, so the FISU trials can be after the Intercollegiate finals. It is also correct that we plan to send 2 teams to the FISU, so depending on the turnout for the Trials, it is still possible that the Intercollegiate winners could go intact. Which team is designated USA1 and which is designated USA2 is, of course, completely irrelevant - it's just a way of distinguishing between the teams. As for the "citizen" question, US citizenship is not required for USBF membership, but "residence" is. The definition of resident is a little complicated, combining a requirement of having lived in the US for 50% of both the last 12 months and the last 24 months with a requirement of being eligible to compete in the next World Championship. For Juniors, though, only the residence requirement applies, since the WBF rules on competing for different countries within a short time span do not apply to Juniors. Thus any Junior who has lived in the US for 6 of the last 12 months and 12 of the last 24 months and intends to remain in the US is eligible for USBF membership and to compete on USBF teams. I missed the "citizen" language when I looked quickly at the announcement being posted about the Intercollegiates, although given the complexity I'm not sure it would have made sense to be more accurate :P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMeck Posted December 14, 2007 Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Thanks for the detailed responses and explanations Jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted December 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Today's good news :)The ACBL Intercollegiate finals will be held on Thursday and Friday, July 17 & 18 (if the days and dates don't match, trust me on the days, not on the dates). Therefore, the FISU trials will be Saturday & Sunday, July 19 & 20 (ditto). Players in the Intercollegiates will be encouraged to play in the FISU trials, either on their Intercollegiate team or on other teams. Unless the turnout for the FISU trials is significantly lower than we hope, it will be used to select both of the USBF's teams for the 2008 FISU event.More good news - there will be 8 teams in the Intercollegiate finals. Thursday will be a complete Round Robin. I think Friday will be a KO with the top 4 teams qualifying, but that's just my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Today's good news :oThe ACBL Intercollegiate finals will be held on Thursday and Friday, July 17 & 18 (if the days and dates don't match, trust me on the days, not on the dates). Therefore, the FISU trials will be Saturday & Sunday, July 19 & 20 (ditto). Players in the Intercollegiates will be encouraged to play in the FISU trials, either on their Intercollegiate team or on other teams. Unless the turnout for the FISU trials is significantly lower than we hope, it will be used to select both of the USBF's teams for the 2008 FISU event.More good news - there will be 8 teams in the Intercollegiate finals. Thursday will be a complete Round Robin. I think Friday will be a KO with the top 4 teams qualifying, but that's just my guess. Geeze. Why go from 8 to 4 to 8? This really bugs me due to what happened to my team last year. Glad the ACBL saw the error in reducing the field but this sort of thing has happened to me a million times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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