bridge on BBC news site

[sceptic]

what ever happened to do not judge a book by its cover.

 

I have only been to a few tourneys in the UK and yes some people were, what I would describe as casual, I did not feel that anyone let the side down, I actually found that the behaviour issue came from the people that were over dressed for the occasion and brought with them an inflated worth of themselves as people

 

But what the heck do I know, I do think that if Tony Forrester wants to improve the bridge scene, there are more important things to do than let everyone in the world know we are a scruffy bunch of buggers

 

Dressing better, will not bring out peoples better side, it usually has the opposite effect (IMHO)

 

A quick slap round the back of the head is probably what is required to sort of the few bad examples of behaviour I have witnessed at the bridge table.

 

One comment I would make, if I had to sit of my backside in a less than comfortable chair for about 6 - 7 hours, I sure would hate to be in a TUX

[paulg]

For once I'm going to defend the EBU here.

All this stuff about dress is Tony Forrester's personal comments. As one of the best English players he is obviously worth listening to, but there is certainly no (new) official policy on dress.

What's your point, Frances? Do you mean that Forrester is in a better position to talk and give advice about clothes just because he is one of England's best bridge players?

 

As far as I know he is not employed by any major fashion company.

 

Roland

My point was badly put, I realised that afterwards.

 

Tony Forrester should have as much authority to comment on what the dress code for bridge events should be as any other bridge player who plays as much as he does. His bridge standard is irrelevant, but that amount he plays, the range of events he plays in, and the length of time for which he has played are not.

Of course Tony is normally 'at work' when he is at the bridge table, whereas the rest are at leisure. So his perspective is slightly different to the majority.

 

p

[pclayton]

He's entitled to his opinion. If a tournament organizer wants to instill a dress code, let 'em. I think its bad judgment to make a dress code universal, but minimum standards are OK.

 

Sandals and socks? Round here, that marks you as a tourist :P

[jdonn]

Is there any kind of geographic relationship between socks and sandals?

 

Here in the US very few people seem to weak socks with sandals (or Tevas or whatever). I've noticed that in Germany the coverse seems true.

 

Personally, I prefer weaking socks with sandals (otherwise also those dust particles that get swept between your feet and the sandals turn into a nasty sweat paste). My mother is complete horrified by this fashion "statement" and constantly blows me ***** about it.

I've always believed it was a complete fashion no-no that looks silly. On the other hand, I'm about as qualified to give fashion advice as I am to dance in Swan Lake.

[paulg]

Most Scottish weekend congresses are played in old-fashioned hotels, are very social affairs and the dress code is typically "for all evening sessions entrants are requested to dress smartly. For example, Jeans and T-shirts are not permitted".

 

There is no dress code for events that are purely bridge, such as the Winter Foursomes and 1-day events.

 

Of course, our climate means that t-shirts and sandals are rarely in evidence anyhow!

 

Paul

[hrothgar]

Shocking, a club primarily for groups of adults(over 18) to gather that charges an admission or entry fee may want a dress code.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

 

You are assuming that the "great unwashed" has decided that they want to impose a dress code and arguing that the have the right to do so.

 

I am claiming that I don't believe that this assumption is warranted (regardless of what Tony Forrester might think). Moreover, I am suggesting that even if the bulk of the current members think that there should be a dress code, it might not be wise to impose one.

[barmar]

Back in the 60s and 70s players wore jackets and ties to evening sessions, but now they are more likely to be scruffier.

Back in the 60's and 70's people wore jackets and ties in most high-class business and social activities. But times have changed, and society has gotten more informal. I wear jeans and T-shirts to my job as an engineer, and several of the people in the management chain above me don't wear a suit or tie except in special occasions. I'd hardly expect an informal leisure activity to require a stricter dress code than an office job.

 

I'm in the US -- I don't know if office work is still more formal over there.

[mr1303]

I'll tell you specifically what caused me to give up face-to-face bridge.

 

I went to my local bridge club on a fairly warm day, with a semi-regular partner. I was wearing a sun-hat that I had purchased fairly recently on a trip to Corfu (a Greek island). I played a couple of rounds before a woman there told me to remove my hat, on account of the fact that she found it "offensive" and "bad manners". This hat had no logos on it whatsoever, and was a simple straw type hat typically found in sunny climates. This was a feeling backed up by the tournament director who refused to enter any discussion whatsoever. It was at this point that I realised that what I wanted from bridge what different to that of the bridge establishment. This happened some 4 months ago. I haven't been back to any bridge club since.

[mike777]

I'll tell you specifically what caused me to give up face-to-face bridge.

 

I went to my local bridge club on a fairly warm day, with a semi-regular partner. I was wearing a sun-hat that I had purchased fairly recently on a trip to Corfu (a Greek island). I played a couple of rounds before a woman there told me to remove my hat, on account of the fact that she found it "offensive" and "bad manners". This hat had no logos on it whatsoever, and was a simple straw type hat typically found in sunny climates. This was a feeling backed up by the tournament director who refused to enter any discussion whatsoever. It was at this point that I realised that what I wanted from bridge what different to that of the bridge establishment. This happened some 4 months ago. I haven't been back to any bridge club since.

Well is this rude or bad manners in your home country or not?

 

If you do not care about manners, or feel you are above that sort of thing, fair enough.

 

I don't mean to be provocative but if this is bad manners then it is, if not then the lady showed bad manners.

[blackshoe]

if anything, i could use an excuse to put on a tie more often.

Ties are an instrument of the Devil. :unsure:

[blackshoe]

All this stuff about dress is Tony Forrester's personal comments. As one of the best English players he is obviously worth listening to, but there is certainly no (new) official policy on dress.

One problem with experts is that they often believe (or act as if they believe) that expertise in one field necessarily implies expertise in another.

 

Tony Forrester's expertise at bridge is unquestioned. His expertise in sartorial matters is another thing entirely.

[blackshoe]

Is there any kind of geographic relationship between socks and sandals?

I have no idea.

 

I'm wearing socks and sandals as I type. All I know is, I'm not willing to go out into the foot of snow 20 degree (Farenheit :unsure: ) weather without socks. Sandals, okay. No socks, nope, not happening.

[nige1]

Most Scottish weekend congresses are played in old-fashioned hotels, are very social affairs and the dress code is typically "for all evening sessions entrants are requested to dress smartly. For example, Jeans and T-shirts are not permitted".

 

There is no dress code for events that are purely bridge, such as the Winter Foursomes and 1-day events.

 

Of course, our climate means that t-shirts and sandals are rarely in evidence anyhow!

 

Paul

At Scottish Congresses, such as Gleneagles, evening dress was mandatory. If a man did not possess a kilt, he wore tuxedo, cummerbund, bow tie and all.

 

More women than men seem to regret the deterioration of standards.

[han]

More women than men seem to regret the deterioration of standards.

Could that be because women never needed to wear a tie anyway?

[helene_t]

More women than men seem to regret the deterioration of standards.

Could that be because women never needed to wear a tie anyway?

Yes, and if men were allowed to wear panties and mini-skirts they would be all for it, I think. As it is, they envy the options we have.

[david_c]

I finally got round to listening to the interview on "the Today programme" which the article was based on. Until next week you can hear it on the Radio 4 "listen again" page (Monday's edition, about 2:20 into the 3-hour programme).

 

It becomes clear that all the talk about a dress code came about because Tony Forrester used dress as an example of how players' attitudes have changed. As Frances pointed out, the EBU's new initiative doesn't actually say anything about a dress code, so this discussion had nothing to do with the original point of the interview, which is a pity. They also went off on a tangent by discussing the reasons for the decline in bridge in general (clearly behaviour is one issue to consider there, but the interviewees had their own ideas of what is wrong which they talked about instead).

 

But they did at least manage to get across the idea that bridge is a competitive game, and we need rules about behaviour in order to deal with people who take the competitiveness too far. Of course, we did already have rules about behaviour before the EBU came along, but it seems that deciding to have a written code of conduct is somehow newsworthy.

[slothy]

lol read the article and this is just too funny

 

Saw Tony Forrester in London about 6 months ago....the LAST person on this earth to talk about dress codes....he was the scruffiest person in the whole building

 

(and the dress he was wearing wasnt really flattering anyway)

 

[felt so sorry for the poor bloke had to put 2p in the plastic cup he had in front of him :) ]

 

the minute i have to wear a tuxedo to play bridge, an item of clothing i do not own and never intend to , (bad enough to have to pay the exorbitant entrance fees) is the minute that i will .. ah waste of breath