Gerben47 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hi, playing 2/1 what would you bid over partner's 1♠ holding these two hands? 1.♠ Jxx♥ -♦ Axx♣ KJxxxxx 2. Same but ♦ Qxx The methods used are:1NT forcing2♣ GF2♠ constructive raise3♦ minisplinter in ♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 wow... interesting hands... should be fun seeing what others bid, but i think with #1 i'd bid 1nt intending to bid 3♠ next time... on #2 i think i'd just bid 2♠ constructive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 WithJxx, -, Axx, KJxxxxxI'd bid 2c GF without any hesitation, I have a very nice hand with 7 losers and support for spades, clubs are good, controls in the other suits, what's the problem? WithJxx, -, Qxx, KJxxxxxI'd bid 4s, where are all the hearts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hmmm, with hand 1 I'd force to game. Just don't know exactly how... We can show both ♣ length and void ♥. Guess it's better to minisplinter and bid 4♣ afterwards, will show your shortness AND your suit. Hand 2 is weaker, but still strong enough for game imo. Blast to 4♠ immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hand 1.. I would bid 2♣ game force, planning on raising ♠ next round. A special note, unlike most players, I can change my mind after I bid 2♣ and cancel my game force intentions if I like, but if I do I will play exactly 2♠ (this is somewhat unique to my bidding system... in that I use 2♣ as a multiple meaning bid after a first or second seat opening that includes a reverse drury implication. So if my partner bids 2♠ screaming weakness (11-12 generally, or flat 13), I could if i like pass. If I raise ♠ after this 2♠ bid, however, it becomes game-force. Hand 2. I would bid 3♣, fit jump showing ♣ cards and length and in theory, 4♠'s and is not forcing...even to 3♠ (partner is allowed to pass, but this is extremely rare). I will respect partner's signoff in 3♠, but if invited to bid more I will. Partner usually places the contract. Of course, most people reserve fit jumps for competition auctions, I on the other hand use them here. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hand 1.. I would bid 2♣ game force, planning on raising ♠ next round. A special note, unlike most players, I can change my mind after I bid 2♣ and cancel my game force intentions if I like, but if I do I will play exactly 2♠ (this is somewhat unique to my bidding system... in that I use 2♣ as a multiple meaning bid after a first or second seat opening that includes a reverse drury implication. So if my partner bids 2♠ screaming weakness (11-12 generally, or flat 13), I could if i like pass. If I raise ♠ after this 2♠ bid, however, it becomes game-force. Hand 2. I would bid 3♣, fit jump showing ♣ cards and length and in theory, 4♠'s and is not forcing...even to 3♠ (partner is allowed to pass, but this is extremely rare). I will respect partner's signoff in 3♠, but if invited to bid more I will. Partner usually places the contract. Of course, most people reserve fit jumps for competition auctions, I on the other hand use them here. Ben I really don't like fit-showing jumps with only 3 trumps, Jxx is even worst. And a 7 card club suit maybe just too much. I think you should have 4 spades and 5/6 clubs for a disciplined FSJ. The void in hearts and the ace outside are also bad for a FSJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I really don't like fit-showing jumps with only 3 trumps, Jxx is even worst. And a 7 card club suit maybe just too much. I think you should have 4 spades and 5/6 clubs for a disciplined FSJ. The void in hearts and the ace outside are also bad for a FSJ. This is what makes bridge such a fun game... everyone has differences of opinions. As for your comments, I don't worry about the seven card suit at all, I am not upset about having the ♥ void, although I do wish I had a fourth trump, partner will expect that I do. But the reason I am willing to go ahead and bid 3♣ with the modified hand without the ♦ACE is that I think it is the most descriptive bid... I got some honors and legnth ♣ and enough values to compete to the three level. It is true that I have overbid the LOTT by one with this jump, but with voids, the LOTT is usually off by a trick. And for me, this fit jump is weaker than the limit raise available through 2NT with four card support (it is true, I have only three). So on my auction, if ♣ fit partners hand well, we will be in 4♠ just like you. An added benefit, if they compete over partner's 4♠ I can rest assured that we have a double fit which makes my next bid so much easier. On the other hand, if partner is short/weak in ♣ and without significant extra values, we will rest safely in 3♠, going down one less than your bid, or maybe making while you are down one. I wasn't going to comment on your choice, but since we know are into a discussion of the merits of the two auctions (this assumes of course you play 3♣ as fit jump). So I will say that your jump to 4♠ shows five spades, so while I "lied" by one trump card with my 3♣ bid, you lied by two with your 4♠ bid. I can only speculate that your willingness to go to 4♠ is also based on the fact that the void alters the LOTT equation, but two tricks? So while I don't evaluate the second hand as good enough to insist on game... I am willing to let my partner become the captain of the auction when he hears about where my values are (they are in clubs) and then let him decide how high to go. Also, I fully expect that in a subsequent competitive action by the opponents my partnership will be in a better situation to know how to deal with it than you and your partner, because my partner knows about my ♣ length and roughly my hcp value, while yours thinks you have two more spades than you do, and has no idea of where your side suit stregnth is, and indeed if you have any at all. Actually in my view of bidding, I don't even think the choice is even close. If you are playing 3♣ as a fit jump, this hand is perfect for it and I find a unilateral 4♠ as a blind guess. Now, if 3♣ is something else (strong GF, invitational with ♣, bergen, or weak preemptive), I would be forced to pick the best of a bad lot and bid 4♠ as you did. But then, I play fit jumps for hands similar to this. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 1 ) I will start with 2 ♣ 2 ) I will just bid 2 ♠ Mike :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hi, playing 2/1 what would you bid over partner's 1♠ holding these two hands? 1.♠ Jxx♥ -♦ Axx♣ KJxxxxx 2. Same but ♦ Qxx The methods used are:1NT forcing2♣ GF2♠ constructive raise3♦ minisplinter in ♥Hand 1 - bid 1NT forcing --- and then spades after that (strain depending on what P bids over the nt :angry: Hand 2 depends on VUL if green V red 4S ( advance sac I think ) ALL other just 2 S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 wow... interesting hands... should be fun seeing what others bid, but i think with #1 i'd bid 1nt intending to bid 3♠ next time... on #2 i think i'd just bid 2♠ constructive i am with you, jimmy, though i might change the bid depdending on what pd bid after my forcing 1N. If he bid 2c or 2d, i would bid 4s, if he bids 2h, then i think i will bid 3s only. fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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