Assign the blame - should I play SAYC by the book?

[MomoTheDog]

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=shdc&w=sq97hkqj4d74ck532&e=sakt653ht95dk5cq6&s=shdc]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

I am West, my advanced pick-up partner is East.

 

Bidding went

W [space] [space]N [space] [space]E [space] [space]S
[space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space]1d
p [space]- 1h - 1s - 2c
2d - p [space]- 2s - [space]p
p - [space]p

 

Partner made 10 tricks and I was reprimanded for not raising. When it comes to pick-up partners, should I take it for granted that they understand my cue-bids (meaning a limit raise or better)? Or is this my mistake for giving too much credit to my partner?

[mike777]

why not make a takeout x over 1d or overcall 1H but do something. :rolleyes:

 

who knows maybe 2d confused partner...maybe cue 2H? :ph34r:

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

first of all the unassuming cue bid is not SAYC,

and if you do it, you may find, that peoble are

not familar with it.

 

Playing with an unknown partner, it is a tough

hand, if you make the cue bid, and if you are not

sure, that partner understands it, you are not

better of than without the cue bid.

 

In the given seq. you may have tried 3S over 2S,

but it is clear, that 3S maybe to high.

 

If you play with an experienced partner, he will

understand oyur problems, if he attacks you, dump

him, at least, if he claims to be adv. or better.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

West bid normally, he could takeout double on the first round but pass is certainly fine. East might have bid a little more strongly over the cuebid, but it's still borderline whether game would be reached. Then again it's a borderline game, so that seems about right :o

 

It's kind of funny that the position of the diamond ace is essentially irrelevent, game needs the heart and clubs aces with south (obviously if one was with north the diamond ace would be off anyway) but given those aces with south the diamond ace no longer matters. I don't know the odds of finding at least two specific aces out of three with the opener when missing 17 high card points, but it feels like a game that you want to be in but only marginally.

[lexlogan]

It is a common expert agreement that, after the opps bid two suits, "cue-bids" in those suits are natural. For example, after (1D)-p-(1H), your partner could bid 1S, 2C, 2D or 2H naturally. There's little need for Michaels in this sequence, especially if you play 2NT as "2 lower unbid"; you've always go the takeout double available as well. An exception might be (1H)-p-(1S), where 1H promised 5; but again, how many ways do you need to show the minors?

 

In your sequence, a cue-bid raise is still useful, but there are 3 suits to choose from. You are less likely to want to bid hearts or clubs after passing up the chance to overcall the first round; but you had no way to bid diamonds at that point. So (1D)-p-(1H)-1S-(2C)-2D is probably most useful to show diamonds, not a raise. (It may make a difference whether RHO is likely to bid this way with 4 diamonds and 5 clubs.) I don't know what to assume with an unknown partner, except that undiscussed bids in the opp's suits are apt to be confusing!

[helene_t]

The bidding was ok. West might have cued 2♥ instead of 2♦ as Mike777 suggests, would have been clearer since West could have a diamond stack, but not a heart stack (if he had he would have bid 1♥ over 1♦).

[foo]

W's hand is strong enough with 12 Dummy points (11 HCP + 1 for the doubleton) to take one more bid after E declines the invite with what might be a minimum overcall.

 

W should first cue bid, then bid 2N to show pard that they have almost GF extras and ♥'s very well stopped. OF course, this is a descriptive Game Try.

 

At that point, E should raise to 4S since W is promising to cover 2-3 of the losers in their H suit in addition to having the values for a almost GF raise... ...and all that is =without= W knowing that EW have a 9, not 8, card fit. E does know that EW have a 9+ card trump fit.

 

As the saying goes, "the 9th trump is often the most important card in bridge."

 

It certainly is here.

[the hog]

Once you have made a cue West has a clear pass now. I would have bid more as your pd. (Mind you, I would also have overcalled 1H with your hand).

[foo]

Once you have made a cue West has a clear pass now. I would have bid more as your pd. (Mind you, I would also have overcalled 1H with your hand).

You don't think W having 12 playing points rather than 9-11 and 7 losers rather than 8 should be considered extras here?

 

Particularly given that W passed and then cue bid on a hand that you and others would directly overcall with at the first legal opportunity?

[jtfanclub]

Bidding went

W [space] [space]N [space] [space]E [space] [space]S
[space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space] [space]1d
p [space]- 1h - 1s - 2c
2d - p [space]- 2s - [space]p
p - [space]p

Now this is what I call Resulting.

 

If trick 1 was a heart to the ace, next two tricks were diamonds, and eventually you have to lose a club, would your partner feel the same way? Auction strongly implies to me that 4♠ is going down, down down....

 

Edited to add: No question in my mind that responder has an ace. If he didn't, his hand would at most look like....

 

Jx

86xx

QJxx

JTx

 

That's not a 1♥ bid in my book. Maybe a pre-emptive diamond raise with some people, but otherwise pass is clear. It's not like you object to being in diamonds.

 

Even if he has the diamond ace, it may not save you....

 

xx

86xxx

AQxx

xx

 

Ace of hearts, signal for a diamond switch. Diamond to the ace, heart ruff, club ace. Down 1.

[jdonn]

Once you have made a cue West has a clear pass now. I would have bid more as your pd. (Mind you, I would also have overcalled 1H with your hand).

You don't think W having 12 playing points rather than 9-11 and 7 losers rather than 8 should be considered extras here?

 

Particularly given that W passed and then cue bid on a hand that you and others would directly overcall with at the first legal opportunity?

Are you saying if west had the king of clubs less it would still be worth a cuebid?

 

And the fact that some would have overcalled before isn't relevant, it just means the hand has a good suit not that the hand is some super maximum pass.

 

If east is a very sound overcaller, maybe I can buy west should bid again. Opposite everyone I play with and against though, it would be suicide.

[foo]

Once you have made a cue West has a clear pass now. I would have bid more as your pd. (Mind you, I would also have overcalled 1H with your hand).

You don't think W having 12 playing points rather than 9-11 and 7 losers rather than 8 should be considered extras here?

 

Particularly given that W passed and then cue bid on a hand that you and others would directly overcall with at the first legal opportunity?

Are you saying if west had the king of clubs less it would still be worth a cuebid?

 

And the fact that some would have overcalled before isn't relevant, it just means the hand has a good suit not that the hand is some super maximum pass.

 

If east is a very sound overcaller, maybe I can buy west should bid again. Opposite everyone I play with and against though, it would be suicide.

1= No. Just that there are some 9 HCP hands that are worth a cue bid.

 

2= W has 12 Dummy points, not 10-11. W has 7 losers, not 8.

IOW, W has a game =force= opposite a sound overcaller.

 

Even opposite a mainstream style overcaller, IMHO W has significant enough extras on this auction that E deserves to know about them.

Some form of game try / invite is the way to let E in on the news.

 

E may or may not bid game. They do not have to. That's what "invite" means after all.

 

Make E's DK be the DA and you always want to be in game.

Move the DK into just about any other suit or have the DA be on-side and you always want to be in game.

It is literally that close.

 

If we are not making game tries when We have 24 HCP, 14 losers, and a 9 card fit between Us, we are not bidding aggressively enough.

[jdonn]

2= W has 12 Dummy points, not 10-11.  W has 7 losers, not 8.

IOW, W has a game =force= opposite a sound overcaller.

Do you know any player, just one, who is not a novice and who would not have overcalled if the diamond king was the queen, making AKTxxx T9x Qx Qx? Not vul at mps? You must know different players than I know.

 

Make E's DK be the DA and you always want to be in game.

Change east's misplaced king into an ace and he would have done more over the cuebid. You are trying to give east a hand he can't have.

Move the DK into just about any other suit or have the DA be on-side and you always want to be in game.

In which suit would you like your side to have two kings for game to be good?

[neilkaz]

You missed a game that is not cold, but one I think you want to be in, this is no tragedy.

 

Anyhow, as west I don't think I pass over 1♦. I can overcall 1♥ with a good 4 but slightly prefer the take out double as I have 4♣ and will just have to hope the Q97 is adequate support in ♠.

 

After passing I play that on a sequence like this, your 2♦ is natural ! What else can you do but pass with a typical 2♦ overcall that isn't strong enough or suited for 1NT ? As others have thoughtfully pointed out, you should Q 2♥ since you'd have overcalled with real ♥ and this won't confuse PD.

 

Should east move over the limit raise (assuming he's 100% sure that you have one ?) That's a tough call, since from where he sits, his ♦ K looks missplaced, perhaps his ♣ Q is dubious and he your H (assuming you have some could be offsides). That being said, I might jump to 3♠ as east over a known limit raise to invite to game.

 

After 2♠, I think west might bid 3♠ anyhow to show the strong invite he has as this is a nice hand.

 

So...west may have confused east with 2♦ which caused east to punt 2♠ afterwhich west's pass rather than 3♠ seems conservative. All in all, I wouldn't be kicking myself too hard over this hand.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Codo]

For me a pass in second seat had been clear.

You have a flat shape for the double, just 11 HCps, just 4-3 in the majors.

Make it 4315, 4423 OR a little stronger. But I guess that doubling with these hand is losing bridge (in the sense of losing more oftenn then winning), even in the agressive days we have right now.

 

I agree that 2 Heart on your second round had been clearer.

 

But even so, pd had to show you if he had a real opener or a weak hand. He showed you the later, so it was his fault to miss this game.

 

But don´t care about CHOs who blame you for not doing more then a cuebid with your hand. Mark them black and search for others.