6511, partner raises

[david_c]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqt982ha7653d4ct]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

You open 1♠, partner raises to 2♠ and RHO overcalls 3♣.

 

What's your call? What do you plan to do if LHO then bids 5♣, passed back round to you?

[Codo]

We don´t have slam (in the absence of a miracle like 4-5 trumps and a heart void in pds hand), so my goal is to buy the contract as cheap as possible, latest for 5 Spade.

I try 3 Spade, if this is really passed out and our teammates did not find 5 Club, I search new teammates.

In the given scenario, I try 5 Spade over 5 Clubs.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4H.

 

Over 5C most likely I will bid 5S anyway,

having helped the opponents with the defence,

but maybe, partner was already helpful.

Maybe we have some forcing pass agreements

in place, which can guide me.

I may or may not be a forcing pass

situation, but to be sure about it, would be helpfull

enough.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Free]

4♥ prepares partner for a sacrifice...

[Fluffy]

3♥, lets see if partner can raise this at a cheap level.

[whereagles]

Not sure pard will understand 3/4♥, so I'll just be practical and bid 4♠ + 5♠.

[neilkaz]

We have 9 HCP and PD won't have more for his single raise.

 

4♠ for me and then 5♠ over 5♣

[benlessard]

Wouldnt 4H be a splinter ? For me it is.

[hotShot]

I hold 9 HCP and if partners 2♠ bid is limited to 6-9(10) opps have more HCP than we have. We have a 9+ card fit in ♠ and it is very likely (66+%) that we have an additional fit in ♥. This makes it almost sure that opps have a double fit in the minors, they don't know about.

 

If I bid ♥ I help them to count trumps and to discover their doublefit

 

So I have 2 questions to answer:

1) Can they make 5m

2) Can we make 4♠

 

I think they can make 4m, we can make 3 or 4♠.

 

So I think bidding 4♠ is the best choice.

If it makes if was the right bid.

Down 1 won't loose too much if 4m makes.

If 5m makes, opps will find it harder to bid it.

If opps bid 5m, they will find that the missing trumps break unfavorable.

 

So my choice would be 4♠

[mikeh]

Wouldnt 4H be a splinter ? For me it is.

Most players worth their salt would play it as showing a second suit, with concentrated values, such as to enable partner to make an informed decision over an anticipated save by the opps (sorry about the worth their salt, but couldn't resist B) )

 

This is in contradistinction to a 3♥ bid, which is a game try and doesn't set up a FP. The jump in the side suit establishes a FP.

 

This hand offers an unusual opportunity for the call, since we are using it, if we make the call, to see if partner can save! But I don't like it, because it essentially forces us to save, while pinpointing the nature of our hand for the opps. It forces us to save when partner likes hearts (good) but also when he doesn't since he will be doubling 5♣ to slow us down and we have to pull. Now, an alert lho will be able to lead a trump almost automatically, and thus maximize the set.

 

I think the choices are really interesting here. One choice that could easily be a winner, and that no-one has mentioned so far, is: Pass

 

However, I opt for the straight-forward, non-descriptive and non-FP-creating 4♠. This way, I probably get a club lead and that may save me a tempo.

 

I would go slower.. indeed, I would pass... if I KNEW that lho would bid 5♣ over 4♠... but why should he? Sure, RHO has long clubs, but why assume that LHO has enough of them to save, especially when he rates to have some defence. After all, it may be partner who has the majority of the missing clubs.

 

The next question is whether I in fact do save over 5♣. At least, in the very unlikely event that partner doubles, I am happy to sit for it, since my bid didn't promise defence. But I am still not sure if I am saving: I suspect I am not, and I realize that I am in the minority... but it is white v white and 300 is the likely outcome and even if it is 100, it may be a phantom.

[benlessard]

I know that some play jump as 2nd suit. Just that i didnt know its as popular as auto-splinter at least here in Canada im sure it isnt.

 

in non-comp auction.

 

with a vgood 5431

 

1S--2S

4C as an auto-splinter is a nice bid.

 

 

with 5215.

 

 

1S--2S--3C followed by a further 4C will show the slam oriented around the 2nd suit.

 

 

Im not sure that i agree that in competitive auction it make more sense to show a 2nd suit.

 

 

on a side note

-----------------------------------------------

Every 2 years there is a poll about the meaning of 4H in

 

1S---(2D)-----2S----(4D)

4H

 

and a fair amount of expert says 4H it should be natural strong 5-5 non-forcing with the argument that its possible 4H will play better then 4S.

 

For me to play 4H as NF is something i just find dumb.

----------------------------------------------

 

Anyway to bid 4H wich setup a FP is a dangerous thing no ?

 

if the opps will bid up to 6 and partner will X i wont like to be in your shoes.

 

Why not just a simple 5S (unless its slam try)

 

maybe a 4Nt and when LHO will X partner should wake up.

 

 

What i ilke to do also in these situation is to pass. If the opps reach 6 convincingly ill take the sac. if they stop at 5 ill take the save. If they reached 6 the hard way ill pass.

[mikeh]

I know that some play jump as 2nd suit. Just that i didnt know its as popular as auto-splinter at least here in Canada im sure it isnt.

 

in non-comp auction.

 

with a vgood 5431

 

1S--2S

4C as an auto-splinter is a nice bid.

 

 

with 5215.

 

 

1S--2S--3C followed by a further 4C will show the slam oriented around the 2nd suit.

 

 

Im not sure that i agree that in competitive auction it make more sense to show a 2nd suit.

 

 

1. I am Canadian, and I assure you that I would expect all my expert Canadian partners (and the larger number of Canadian experts I know but have not partnered) would take the jump in the new suit as I have suggested: length and strength, involving partner in the (likely) impending decision over a save. I admit that this is an 'advanced' and maybe an 'expert' treatment, but it is nevertheless standard for players of expert status, and I would be very surprised if you found a substantial proportion of experts disagreeing (I am not so foolish as to say that NO expert would disagree)

 

2. While imo the natural strong and long side suit meaning has utility in uncontested auctions, it is in competitive auctions that the bid is most useful. It arises, usually, in two scenarios. The most common, in my experience, is when we anticipate the opps taking a save.. and we need to know whether to bid on or double. The second scenario is when we want to guard against a double-game swing: these usually (but not always) arise when both sides have big double-fits. Especially when responder has had to make a raise, rather than show his or her own suit, there will sometimes be big double-fits that neither side can diagnose UNLESS one bidder shows the second suit.

 

3. While, as I wrote above, the strong second suit jump is most useful (and most commonly played) in competitive auctions, and the auto splinter may be more widely used in non-competitive auctions, I prefer, by a wide margin, to use the jumpshift by opener over a single raise as a very specific hand: a powerful 5-5 or better. A typical hand: AKxxx AK AQJxx x. Responder bids according to the number of cover cards held.. I won't go into details here. The reason for this approach is that slams after a single raise are, by definition, unlikely, and will usually be based on a secondary source of tricks rather than on pure power, with strength in two side suits. Furthermore, the auto splinter is a crude weapon, in comparison, when the splinter suit is the one beneath trump: after 1♥ 2♥ 4♦, there is limited room for safe bidding. While if 4♦ shows a powerful 2 suiter, and responder's bidding is based on cover cards, the partnership will never venture beyond its safety level.

[jdonn]

I think it's a good general principle that when the opponent overcall, you can only splinter in their suit and all other jumps show the suit. Based on frequency alone it's a huge winner.

[whereagles]

agree

[han]

I also agree with jdown's rule on splinters in competition.

 

I really don't like the 4H fit-bid though. I'm bidding 4S and hope that the opponents will make a bad decision.

[david_c]

This hand was from a teams of eight competition; at the three other tables N/S were allowed to play in 4♠, but their auctions probably started differently.

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sj74h9dkqjt85cj72&w=s653hq842d32cq865&e=sahkjtda976cak943&s=skqt982ha7653d4ct]399|300|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

 

I bid 4♠ then 5♠, doubled for -100.

 

Both 4♠ and 5♣ are one off double-dummy, but you have to find the ♥A lead to set 5♣, while everyone who was in spades made 10 tricks.

[Codo]

East really bid 3 Club with that hand? Wow.

Okay, this bid is a winner because it takes you to the right strain in this hand, but I believe that this will be a "X wtp" for most players...