Gerben42 Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Here we go again. The UEFA (European football association) in its infinite wisdom will seed the qualifiers to the European championships in 4 groups, basically on strength. From each group, 1 team gets to play in each of the 4 groups in the championship. But... Group 1 which is supposed to be the strongest group gets: * Host #1: Switzerland* Host #2: Austria* Defending champions: Greece* Country A (#1 in qualifying list) The second group I don't know by heart but looks a bit like: * Country B (#2 in qualifying list)* Italy (World Champions)* France (WC Runners-up)* Some good team like Czech Republic or so. Because of this, you want to be country B and not country A, because you will get an opponent from group 1. Country A & B are to be selected from Germany and Netherlands. Both have easy opponents in the last round: Belarus - Netherlands (in Minsk)Germany - Wales (in Frankfurt) Netherlands will be country A unless they lose and Germany wins. The match in Minsk started earlier because of the time zones, and the Dutch... lost! 1 - 2. I am writing this 5 minutes before the end of the second game, and it's still 0 - 0 in Frankfurt, logically. All thanks to the silly regulations really, you cannot blame the players or coaches for not wanting to win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I always though the way the groups in qualifiers were constructed sucked. Just have a random drawing... that way noone can complain about conspiracies or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 as an aside, i think it ridiculous that hosts get a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I don't follow football, but I must be missing something because from the foregoing post it seems to me that country A has the easier ride, having what appear to me to be a weaker pool of opponents in group 1 than does country B in group 2. That being the case I would rather be country A. I am sure it is something obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 This is not the groups you play, it's the set you are picked from, your future opps are drawn from the other groups.If you are in the same set with France and Italy, you won't play them in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Gotcha. That explains it. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Pool ASwitzerlandAustriaGreeceNetherlands Pool BCroatiaItalyCzech RepublicSweden Pool CRomaniaGermanyPortugalSpain Pool DPolandFranceTurkeyRussia France in Pool D, that's kind of unusual and all... I have no idea why the host countries need to be 1st seeds. The same for Greece. All three are just bad teams (sorry!) There are easy systems where the two hosts can be drawn in different groups. Ah well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 if they are going to prearrange pools like this they should do it so that the teams that were in the same qualifying group can't be in the same finals group... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerardo Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Greece is the current European champion. That's why it is seeded. On the hosts free pass (and seeding), it is mostly tradition, coming from pre TV times, where attendance were a non negligible percentage of the income. Time to review this one, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Greece is the current European champion. That's why it is seeded. On the hosts free pass (and seeding), it is mostly tradition, coming from pre TV times, where attendance were a non negligible percentage of the income. Time to review this one, I guess. i know it is tradition, but also, traditionally, a single country hosted a tournament such as this, but recently there seems to be a trend to have smaller countries team up, taking away two slots instead of just one. (japan/korea, austria/switzerland, and poland/ukraine soon, i think?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 On the hosts free pass (and seeding), it is mostly tradition, coming from pre TV times, where attendance were a non negligible percentage of the income. Time to review this one, I guess. What difference could it possibly make in the income whether or not the host is seeded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdct Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 On the hosts free pass (and seeding), it is mostly tradition, coming from pre TV times, where attendance were a non negligible percentage of the income. Time to review this one, I guess. What difference could it possibly make in the income whether or not the host is seeded? It's not so much that the hosts are seeded, but that hosts automatically qualify for the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jikl Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE (gwnn @ Nov 22 2007, 12:34 AM) QUOTE (Gerardo @ Nov 22 2007, 02:04 AM) On the hosts free pass (and seeding), it is mostly tradition, coming from pre TV times, where attendance were a non negligible percentage of the income. Time to review this one, I guess. What difference could it possibly make in the income whether or not the host is seeded? It's not so much that the hosts are seeded, but that hosts automatically qualify for the tournament. It is also that they are seeded since they have a much better chance of advancing to the latter rounds with an artificially high seeding. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 BTW no offense Gerben+Han, but Holland aren't all that better than the other 3 in the top favorites pool :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 I agree that the current system is silly. The hosts should have a bonus, after all they have an advantage- they play at home. And, as they do not have any qualification games, so they lose ranks just because the disabbility to play in serious games.But I think there should be no automatic top seeds for the hosts. I had liked a seeding system which follows the FIFA ranking and gives the host(s) a bonus from lets say 30 places and the holders from 10 places. In this case, Italy, France, Germany and Greece are group 1.Spain, Netherlands, Croatia, Czech Republic, in two, Portugal, Romania, Russia and Switzerland in three, rest in four. You may argue about one or another seed, but this is much fairer then it is now.It may not show the current strength (f.e. Croatia played an impressive qualifier) but it is much closer to reality and easy to understand. And this system will give no team an excusion to loose or play a draw against a lesser opponent just to be seeded in a better group. They should all try to qualify as good as possible. I am not sure about the games yesterday, but we Germans have a long history in close matches against Wales, so maybe we had not even won if it had been crutial. But I do believe that the knowledge, that you are already qualified and that it will do you no good to win this last game makes you play weaker. You just don´t have this last 10 % of will, the highest amount of adrenaline. But I am really not sure if we did a good job. Now we are in pool nr. 3. IS this really an advantage compared with Pool NR. 1? It could be but a possible group like Netherlands, Italy, Germany France will be.... nice to watch. :) But who cares, we will beat them all, at least at the penalties and win 2008... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Seedings for the draw for the 2008 European Championship in Austria and Switzerland: Pot One:SwitzerlandAustriaGreeceNetherlands Pot Two: CroatiaItalyCzech RepublicSweden Pot Three: GermanyRomaniaPortugalSpain Pot Four: PolandFranceTurkeyRussia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geller Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 It is also that they are seeded since they have a much better chance of advancing to the latter rounds with an artificially high seeding.Yes, for example in the 2002 World Cup Japan (the co-host, with South Korea) were seeded top in a group with Russia, Belgium and Tunisia, where they advanced to the round of 16 (losing to Turkey). This obviously was good for national pride as well as TV and ticket sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Arguably Switzerland and in particular Austria are much weaker than other hosts have been in the past, including the likes South Korea and Japan. In fact I'd say they are the weakest 2 teams of all 16 in the tournament. But overall, there is no massive difference in class between most of the teams so the seeding system doesn't mean that much. All the teams in this tourney have a chance to advance and no group can be that much tougher than any other (compared to Rugby World Cup). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Well a group like Austria Sweden Romania Russia is much weaker then a group with Netherlands Italy, Germany France.And it is not close, so the seeding system is something to care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 I liked the post about Germany and penalties. Any idea how are the countries selected in the pots? At least in champions league they have coefficients to seed (though some will argue about that as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Any idea how are the countries selected in the pots? They chose the results of the qualification rounds for the WC 2006 and EC 2008. So if you do great in these qualifiers but lost early in the WC you are higher seeded then someone who struggled to the WC but made a great job there. AS Germany did not need to qualify for WC 2006, they must have used something to equalisze this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geller Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 From the BBC Home page, here are the standings in qualifying group D of the UEFA Champions League, with one round (Dec 5) to go.UEFA Champions League : Group D Table28 November 2007 21:39 P W D L F A GD PTS 1 AC Milan 5 3 1 1 11 5 6 10 2 Celtic 5 3 0 2 5 5 0 9 3 Shakhtar Donetsk 5 2 0 3 5 9 -4 6 4 Benfica 5 1 1 3 3 5 -2 4 AC Milan have sealed their place in the last 16 and a draw at home to Celtic in the last game will take them through in first place. A draw would also take Celtic through, but if the Scots lose in Milan, they will miss out on the knockout stages if Shakhtar beat Benfica at home. That would leave Celtic and Shakhtar on nine points, but the Ukrainians would go through on head-to-head having beaten Celtic 2-0 at home and lost only 2-1 at Parkhead. Celtic will top the group if they win in the San Siro. As explained by the BBC, if Celtic and AC Milan draw, both qualify (this is worth about $20MUS to each team). I'm predicting a 0-0 draw. Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 A 1 - 1 pleases the fans and silences the critics, so I predict that. The Denmark - Norway match in the last world cup even ended in 2 - 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 From the BBC Home page, here are the standings in qualifying group D of the UEFA Champions League, with one round (Dec 5) to go.UEFA Champions League : Group D Table28 November 2007 21:39 P W D L F A GD PTS 1 AC Milan 5 3 1 1 11 5 6 10 2 Celtic 5 3 0 2 5 5 0 9 3 Shakhtar Donetsk 5 2 0 3 5 9 -4 6 4 Benfica 5 1 1 3 3 5 -2 4 AC Milan have sealed their place in the last 16 and a draw at home to Celtic in the last game will take them through in first place. A draw would also take Celtic through, but if the Scots lose in Milan, they will miss out on the knockout stages if Shakhtar beat Benfica at home. That would leave Celtic and Shakhtar on nine points, but the Ukrainians would go through on head-to-head having beaten Celtic 2-0 at home and lost only 2-1 at Parkhead. Celtic will top the group if they win in the San Siro. As explained by the BBC, if Celtic and AC Milan draw, both qualify (this is worth about $20MUS to each team). I'm predicting a 0-0 draw. Any takers? It's not that clear. This is quite different from the time Arsenal and Porto drew 0-0, cause they both put their qualification in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 A 1 - 1 pleases the fans and silences the critics, so I predict that. The Denmark - Norway match in the last world cup even ended in 2 - 2. Corrections1. Denmark vs Sweden it was.2. European Championships 2004 in Portugal. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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