whereagles Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Imps, top team game, beginning of match. ♠ J♥ Qxx♦ AKQT98♣ AKQ You pard1♦ ... 1♠2NT* 3♠3NT . 4♣ *2NT = artificial, strong 2 in diamonds (~18-21 hcp, good 6♦ suit), game forcing. The rest is natural. Pard could have supported in diamonds with 4♦ over 3NT. We could also have bid 3♣ (nat) over 2NT. So, what do you think pard has and what do you bid now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 edit I just saw my hand......whatever 4c is not what I thought. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 You are playing a strange convention and are lost this quickly? Maybe discussion is called for. The call of 4♣ could have several logical meanings, IMO, depending upon what 3♠ and 3NT showed. 1A. Cue of first-round control, in support of diamonds1B. Cue of a control, in support of diamonds1C. General cue in support of diamonds (maybe 4♦ would be RKCB and Responder wants to answer)2A/B/C. Cue demanding spades as trumps3. Waiting, slammish4. Natural (ugh!)5A. Gerber (UGH!!!)5B. Roman Gerber (Scientific UGH!!!)6A/B. Cue, without specified intent yet There are probably others. I cannot really guess, therefore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Ken, 3♠ and 3NT were, as I said, natural. 3♠ showed 5+ cards, probably no other side suit, and 3NT just denied a spade fit, with a tendency to have unbid suits stopped. This situation actually happened at table like I showed it. I'm not asking how you would interpret 4♣ in particular. Just what you make of pard's bidding, and, given that you have to make a bid, which would it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 You are playing a strange convention and are lost this quickly? Maybe discussion is called for. The call of 4♣ could have several logical meanings, IMO, depending upon what 3♠ and 3NT showed. 1A. Cue of first-round control, in support of diamonds1B. Cue of a control, in support of diamonds1C. General cue in support of diamonds (maybe 4♦ would be RKCB and Responder wants to answer)2A/B/C. Cue demanding spades as trumps3. Waiting, slammish4. Natural (ugh!)5A. Gerber (UGH!!!)5B. Roman Gerber (Scientific UGH!!!)6A/B. Cue, without specified intent yet There are probably others. I cannot really guess, therefore. I will opt for the natural, (ugh) interpretation of 4♣. We can still have a club fit here as pard could be a 6-4 or more likely a 6-5. I think most of Ken's 1's just set trump with 4♦ and cue bid later. I will now make the equally ambiguous call of 4♠. By the way, I think I would suggest transfers over 2N, even though its artificial. It seems you can sort out hand types for responder easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 By the way, I think I would suggest transfers over 2N, even though its artificial. It seems you can sort out hand types for responder easier. I can see only one advantage to it: you clearly sort out the black 54 hands from 45 ones. 54s transfer to spades and bid clubs, 45s bid clubs (via 3♠ transfer). As it is (i.e. in our auction), there is a chance that responder has a black 54. However, with that hand he could have bid 3♣ and follow-up with 3♠ later on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Ken, 3♠ and 3NT were, as I said, natural. 3♠ showed 5+ cards, probably no other side suit, and 3NT just denied a spade fit, with a tendency to have unbid suits stopped. This situation actually happened at table like I showed it. I'm not asking how you would interpret 4♣ in particular. Just what you make of pard's bidding, and, given that you have to make a bid, which would it be. Well, I expected that "natural" could mean a lot. FOr instance, what would partner's 3♣ call have been? Could 2NT feature an unbid 4-card heart suit? All that said, I expect that 4♣ shows slam interest. That part is easy. Your calls show 18-21, which is quite a range. If partner has a trick source in spades, something like AKxxxx, and a side entry, like four small diamonds, then he has slam interest. Looking at my hand, I expect pard to either have really good spades but no heart stop (e.g., ♠AKQxxx ♥Jxx ♦xxx ♣x) or decent spades with a heart stop (e.g., ♠KQ10xx ♥Axx ♦xxx ♣x). I don't know what 4♣ normally or ideally should mean, but it seems like he has one of these. However, his spades may be longer and his diamonds, accordingly, shorter. I don't know what my next bids mean. That's the problem. I could bid 4♦, but maybe that's RKCB. His next call could be 4♠ as a natural signoff OR as an answer to RKCB; his call might be 4NT instead, RKCB himself or an answer to my RKCB. I could bid 4♠, but I don't know what that means. I don't want to bid 4♥, because no meaning seems right. I could bid 4NT, but maybe that is quantitative. If it is RKCB, for what suit? If I had it available, I would bid an "O.S. 5NT" call and make partner pass or bid whatever he thinks is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 This is a strong ♠ one-suiter with a club control and for some reason didn't want to start with a SJS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Listening to the auction, it's a cue bid for spades.Looking at my hand i'm a bit surprised to have the AKQ of clubs, but I think it's still a cue for spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Stiff C, S cue. I reckon pd has a reasonable 6card S suit here as well. I bid 4D now, hoping to hear 4H. I will pass pd's 4S bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Imps, top team game, beginning of match. ♠ J♥ Qxx♦ AKQT98♣ AKQ You pard1♦ ... 1♠2NT* 3♠3NT . 4♣ *2NT = artificial, strong 2 in diamonds (~18-21 hcp, good 6♦ suit), game forcing. The rest is natural. Pard could have supported in diamonds with 4♦ over 3NT. We could also have bid 3♣ (nat) over 2NT. So, what do you think pard has and what do you bid now? 5S Doubt I would have found this at the table.90% blame partner for making me play this thing10% me for saying yes. :P To be more fair one more example why people play strong club or learn to just live with these type of hands in 2/1. B) Every day I am more convinced we(non wc fields) lose over such basic problems...like counting or visualize or not going past 3nt :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 4♦ seems clear, the problem will come next round. 3♠ nat should not show 5 cards, but good 6 cards, with 3 you can just bid clubs or even diamonds or herats and partner will be eager to bid 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 The only thing partner has is spades - at least 6 of them, probably 7 when the rebid is at the 3rd level. I bid 4♠ - I may be at the top of my bid in regards to HCP but the poor support of partner's suit makes the slam chances minuscule at best. KQxxxxxxxxxxx is what I expect partner to have, and any other bid goes down more than one. If partner is better than that the bidding will continue, so nothing is lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 By the way, I think I would suggest transfers over 2N, even though its artificial. It seems you can sort out hand types for responder easier. I can see only one advantage to it: you clearly sort out the black 54 hands from 45 ones. 54s transfer to spades and bid clubs, 45s bid clubs (via 3♠ transfer). As it is (i.e. in our auction), there is a chance that responder has a black 54. However, with that hand he could have bid 3♣ and follow-up with 3♠ later on... I think you sort out any type of hand. You can: 1. Show two suiters2. Establish diamond support followed by cuebidding, or make a mild slam try via a slow 3N. 3. Show a strong single suiter and make pard cue. Etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Thx all. Most of you got it right: pard has a strong spade 1-suiter and is self-cueing. Actually he has a MONSTER... here are the hands: [hv=d=w&v=n&w=sjhqxxdakqt98cakq&e=sakqxxxxxhakjxdxc]266|100|Scoring: IMP1♦ ... 1♠2NT* 3♠3NT . 4♣..? 2NT = strong 2 in diams[/hv] After 4♣, if you bid 4♦ you'll get to 7♠ easily. If you bid 4♠ instead, pard might be afraid ♦A is out and sign-off in 6♠.. that's what happened at table :P Anyway, on retrospect, I think now it is very, very hard that a direct 7♠ doesn't lead to a making grand, so I believe that's the most practical bid. By the way, pard didn't SJS because we were playing WJS :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASkolnick Posted November 27, 2007 Report Share Posted November 27, 2007 4C over 3N when no clear suit mentioned is what I call a "generic" slam try. Make the most appropriate bid you think cue-bid, rebid your suit etc and partner will clear up the actual suit he wants to play in later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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