X and XX and Champ's League Final

[helene_t]

http://www.geocities.com/helene_thygesen/champlaegue-redbls.jpeg

 

One commentator said that E's first pass forced redbl. Silly agreement. Also, how can W think that 2♠ is better than 2♥? Maybe it was simply table presence ... Finally, North's 2nd double seems to be meant as penalty while the third dbls was meant as t/o - is that really their agreement, or are they just doubling randomly?

 

In the other room, it was just as funny, but different. EW were Fantunes (I think), NS Balicki-Zmuzynski:

1♣-x-1♥*-p (*transfer)

1♠-x-p-2♣

2♠-x-p-3♣

a.p.

 

The only sense I can make of this is that N's first dbl was a power double. But then he certainly overbid.

[Guest Jlall]

Why is it a silly agreement to play easts pass forces a XX? You add a lot more ways to run out and simply lose the ability to play 1N X. It's a very common agreement for weak NTers and makes reasonable sense for strong NTers too.

 

Also don't know if you are joking about how west knew that spades would probably play better than hearts, but I will go ahead and answer in case you weren't, he has 4 very strong spades and 4 very weak hearts, and they doubled hearts. Even if east is 3-4 in the majors spades will often play better. East described random balanced runout so it is certainly odds on to play 2S, which he was always going to do, he just decided to see if he could play 2H undoubled first.

 

As for north I would say he was doubling randomly, often known as rhythm doubles. North is an italian sponsor and thus is not at the level of the other italians and probably doesn't have much experience in auctions like these.

[zasanya]

Those of us who play weak NT must have a 'run out' method.Some play responder redoubles for 'runout' but then we miss the good old redouble to show 'them their place' :) .So some play responder's pass forces opener to redouble for run out and responder can pass with fair values..A convention by the quaint name 'swine' is worth studying.

See http://homepage.mac.com/bridgeguys/ACOL/SwineAcol.html

[kenberg]

First: I wasn't aware that you could paste in a hand like you did. It's terrific!

 

Now about this pass forces a redouble stuff. I usually play strong NTs as I gather they were doing. I have known people, other strong notrumpers, who like P->XX but I don't. This hand is an illustration (maybe I will end up looking foolish if you say they made this but I assume there were three top hearts, then a fourth, dummy ruffing high, weak hand pitching diamonds, after which declarer can draw trump and play it in NT at the 2 level or suffer some ruffs). So here we are, we have found a strong 4-4 fit and we are still in serious trouble. I don't imagine 1NX is coming in, but I suspect it is down 1. There is no way to get to the weak hand (except by repeated diamond plays which will lead to two D tricks for declarer) and, if the diamonds are not played, one way or another I suspect the strong hand gets endplayed.

 

Of course you do not always find your strong 4-4 fit. I have picked up some very large scores playing against this convention.

 

Among other things, if 1NT-X-Pass is just a pass, and can be followed by another pass, it often puts pressure on fourth hand. Here he has nothing and he has no place to go so I assume he would pass. But with shape and no points he may well pull, especially opposite a partner who often doubles 1NT. (I still play the X of 1NT for penalty (I'm old, what can you say) but I wait for a suit like KQJTx to go with my high card points. AKQx allows you to cash 3, setting up one for declarer.)

 

 

Some very good players like this convention (obviously, since the posted hand was not being played by your basic turkeys) but it is one of the few conventions that I simply refuse to play.

 

 

Added: I see that if in the 2SX contract S tosses diamonds in the way that I said then N is squeezed on the run of the trump and declarer gets out for down 1. Still, he is down. Moreover, that South is better than I am. With well-judged defense, it seems down 2 is possible.

[Gerben42]

It's a screenshot (image), so you can paste that I guess...

[inquiry]

First: I wasn't aware that you could paste in a  hand like you did. It's terrific!

You can post any image on the internet using the img button to the right of the http:// option. If the image on the internet gets zapped, then the image will be gone from your post. There is good news bad news there i guess.

 

I am not wild about everyone knowing you can post any image. i can imagine the role of the adminstrator could get a lot busier as people post links to their favorite, er, photos. Having said that, I used the img button several times myself to show excel charts, etc I made.

 

If you are posting such images, it might be nice to use some software to shrink their size before you upload them somewhere on the web to link too from this forum. they don't take up space in teh forum, but smaller ones are easier to see on low resolution monitors.

[helene_t]

Why is it a silly agreement to play easts pass forces a XX?

If S can pass without intend of defending 1NTx, knowing that the redbl will give him another shot, EW are making this situation a lot easier for NS. Also, if EW don't have a fit, this rebd agreement makes it worse. I can imagine a good runout which includes an obligation for W to xx with some hands. But OK, there are obviously players several orders of magnitude stronger than I who like this convention so I'm probably wrong.

 

Also don't know if you are joking about how west knew that spades would probably play better than hearts

I thought 2♥ suggested both majors since he bypassed diamonds, so he should leave it to E to chose. I suppose he could have clubs and hearts, but then E's strategy should be to bid clubs followed by XX on say 4441, not on a hand that might actually want to play in clubs.

 

Anyway, of course there is huge quality difference between the majors, I didn't think of that :) My bad.

 

I shrunk the image, tx for the advice Ben.

[Rebound]

FWIW if you're using an image hosting site like Imageshack, for example, you could post just the link to the image rather than the original in order to save space and loading time for the bandwidth-challenged.

[gwnn]

No offense Helene, but those colors make me sick :)

[the hog]

Playing an automatic xx is certainly not a silly method. It gives players of weak and mini NTs an extra out. It is also the basis of Swine, an excellent run out and penalising method.

[kenberg]

I'm curious. It seems to me that 2SX can be set 2. Was it?

 

A,K of hearts, heart 9 ruffed, club through with N covering whatever W plays, then the remaining high heart. Defense has 4 in the bag, and if the heart is not ruffed then the two aces are cashed for dn 2. So the last heart is ruffed high, as S throws a club. Now what?

Say trumps are drawn in three rounds. N follows once and throws two diamonds. As long as S holds on to 9xx of diamonds there is no squeeze, even if W leads out the last trump. NS took the first four tricks and it seems that they get three more.

 

I am not saying it is obvious but given the auction it is not crazy to think that S will see his 9 of diamonds as important and hold on to the guards. Further, squeeze and endplay problems are apparent to experienced players so the third round ruff and club through may well be found.

 

Maybe there is a counter to this by W but I don't see it.

 

So, just for curiosity's sake, what was the result?

[helene_t]

Right, 2S-2. In the other room it was 3c-1.

[kenberg]

On hands such as the E hand, with a 15-17 NT opening by partner, I am very happy to be playing that pass means pass. Our side has half the deck, maybe more. As near as I can tell, if you interchange the 8 and the 9 of diamonds then 1N has, at the least, a good chance. As the cards are above, it goes off 1 (at least I don't see how to get it 2). 1NXX would make me nervous, 1NX may well be the best spot available,as it seems to be here.

 

Playing weak notrumps is another matter entirely of course. But, given my druthers, I don't do that.