Monster

[jonottawa]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sakqt62hdkt7cakj2]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥ - P - 1♠ - P

3♥-P - ?[/hv]

[P_Marlowe]

3S, the problems will come

in the next rounds.

 

I cant bid 4C / 4D because this would

be a cue for hearts, so I show a good

5 card spade suit, and await partners

bid, maybe he enlightens me.

 

A direct 2S bid would have worked this

time, but I dont like it, you did have also

interest in playing in clubs, and why make

it opener harder to introduce clubs?

 

With kind regards

Malowe

[beatrix45]

B) 4NT. Time to roll out 'the tool' as asking bids look like the ticket for this hand. Playing 1430, partner will usually bid 5♦ showing zero or three controls - that is to say the AK of ♥ and the A of ♦. Given that, I am willing to take the position that most of the time at least one of the major suits will yield six tricks, the other will yield at least three, and the minor suit AK's add up to 13+ tricks - so, I am bidding the grand in NT on this auction.

 

If he lacks the ♥Q, I've got to hope for the ♣Q or the ♦Q and some length. I'm still bidding 7NT.

 

If partner is missing one of the prime red controls, I'll stop at 6NT - the missing control might be the ♦A.

[whereagles]

Last time I was in a situation like this, I managed to find the only way to miss 7. Just bid 4♣, regardless of what it is. If pard bids 4♦, next bid is 7NT. If he doesn't bid 4♦, I'll trot out ol' black and bid 6 or 7 NT.

[Codo]

I voted 4 NT and will bid 6 NT if he has less then 3 KCs. I am an optimist.

[Edmunte1]

3♠

[Guest Jlall]

3S

[Walddk]

3♠. Anything is better than 4NT which I find plain silly. What are you going to do when opener shows two keycards for hearts? Right, guess if he has ♥AK, ♥K and ♦A or the two red aces.

 

To those who suggest 4NT I would like to say that Blackwood is useless unless partner can produce all the keycards you are missing. You don't deserve to be this lucky when you venture 4NT.

 

If the response you get is 5♥ or 5♠, you are not any wiser and must now bid 6NT. That will likely make, but you could easily have 17 top tricks.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

3♠. If p now bids 3N or 4♥ it hasn't become much easier, but maybe p bids 4♦ or 4♠.

[Fluffy]

What Ube said

[mcphee]

3S just looks easy, I would like to stress S, it is forcing and I may even know what to do after the next bid. 4N just can not work out well as you'll be left to guess later. I suppose a person might bid C, but that is never going to convince anyone you have 6 S that most days takes 6 tricks.

[helene_t]

What's the point of 4♣? I don't want to play in clubs (p cannot have four of them unless he has seven hearts) and if p takes 4♣ as a cue for hearts, it's even worse.

[whereagles]

What's the point of 4♣? I don't want to play in clubs (p cannot have four of them unless he has seven hearts) and if p takes 4♣ as a cue for hearts, it's even worse.

The point is to see if opener can come up with a 4♦ bid. Then you're definitely in grand slam territory.

[helene_t]

I don't get it. If opener is allowed to cue stiffs, 4♦ will not help us. If not, 3♠ may elicit the diamond cue as well. Unless p bids 3N, but then we can bid 4♣ over 3NT. Or is it that opener can cue stiffs over 3♠ but not over 4♣?

[neilkaz]

I would have made a strong jump shift to 2♠ if that were available, but here, 3♠ for me and my reakl question is whether we have a grand or not.

[Codo]

3♠. Anything is better than 4NT which I find plain silly. What are you going to do when opener shows two keycards for hearts? Right, guess if he has ♥AK, ♥K and ♦A or the two red aces.

 

To those who suggest 4NT I would like to say that Blackwood is useless unless partner can produce all the keycards you are missing. You don't deserve to be this lucky when you venture 4NT.

 

If the response you get is 5♥ or 5♠, you are not any wiser and must now bid 6NT. That will likely make, but you could easily have 17 top tricks.

 

Roland

1. If you have 36-38 HCPs between you and your partner, it is not too lucky to possess all KCs. From the 6 KCs in the two suit, you have 5 or 6.

 

2. To all the 3 Spade bidders:How do you proceed after pd bid:

 

pd you Pd

a) 3 NT 4 ♣ 4 ♦?

 

4 NT? This is surely Blackwood, not invitational?

I hope your pd is on the same wavelength :)

or do you advocate a control showing bid in ?

 

<_< 4 ♦

Now you can bid 4 NT because this is clearly Blackwood?

And if it is, is it plain Blackwood, or KC for Hearts or for Spades?

Ok, you are sure it is plain Blackwood. Now pd answers two aces and you bid? 5 Spade? 5 NT? Are you sure that your pd know which one of this bids is to play and which askes for kings?

And if it is plain blackwood, had you been able to ask about the KCs in Spade?

 

c) 4 ♥ ?

 

4 NT now has the same ups and downs as a direct bid, well okay, you know that pd is missing a Diamond control, so you settle for 6 NT at once.

 

But I agree that you are a winner, if pd raises your spades to 4, because now you can ask him about his aces.

 

I believe -like you- that in a theroretical point of view, 3 Spade is better. But I doubt that many partnerships had have a good enough discussion about the later bidding, so I still belive that 4 NT will work better in practice.

[whereagles]

I don't get it. If opener is allowed to cue stiffs, 4♦ will not help us.

 

If not, 3♠ may elicit the diamond cue as well.

 

Unless p bids 3N, but then we can bid 4♣ over 3NT. Or is it that opener can cue stiffs over 3♠ but not over 4♣?

Well, 3♠ + 4♣ might be technically better, but I just want to make it simpler. As I said, I've been in a similar situation, where the only thing I needed was to know whether pard had ♦A. I couldn't find out, so I played "safe" and bid just 6. Pard came down with AKQ of diamonds... there were 20(!!) tricks available.

[pclayton]

This is a deceptively tough hand. You can construct some hands for pard's hand where 7 is ugly: ♠--- ♥AKQxxx ♦AQxx ♣xxx. A grand has to be excellent opposite many 3♥ calls however with a little spade support.

 

3♠ for now. If pard bids the expected 3N, I'll bid 4♣. Things may get murky here, but its better than unilaterally bashing on your 2nd call.

[jonottawa]

Pard had one of these two hands:

 

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

 

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

 

(And yes, I know, you can cheat and go to myhands and find out which.)

 

I'd be interested to know how you think the auction should proceed in either case.

[Halo]

Another vote for 3S.

[Fluffy]

Why did partner bid 3♥?

 

1♥-1♠

4♥-4NT

5♠-6♥/♠/NT

[Codo]

Pard had one of these two hands:

 

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

 

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

 

(And yes, I know, you can cheat and go to myhands and find out which.)

 

I'd be interested to know how you think the auction should proceed in either case.

After

1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 4 NT 5 ♠ 6 NT

After

1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 3 ♠ 4 ♥ 5 NT 6 ♦ 6 NT

 

After

1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 3 ♠ 3 NT 4 ♣ 4 ♦ 4 ♥ I 4 NT 5 ♠ 6 NT

 

I doubt that anybody can find out whether or not opener has the Jack of spades?!

[jonottawa]

Aight. Interest in this one seems to have petered out. Maybe it wasn't a fair question. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

 

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

 

and

 

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

 

I 'unilaterally bashed' on my 2nd call and bid 4NT. I wanted to bid 4NT while both my pard and I knew for sure what it meant (Keycard for Hearts) and not later when it could arguably mean Keycard for Spades, Keycard for Hearts, Blackwood ordinaire, or quantitative (like Codo was saying.)

 

I considered pard to be a heavy favorite to have 3, in which case I was bidding 7NT, hoping that either one of our suits ran or that there were 13 toppers anyway (like beatrix45 was saying.) He didn't. I bid 6NT. He had the 1st hand. Doh.

 

In hindsight, 3 Spades is probably better. But on the actual hand while you can delay the guess as long as you want, I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

 

It scored ok on BBO (lose 0.7) but might not do so well IRL. When I looked at all the auctions that got to 7, though, none of them made any sense. So I thought it would be a good problem.

 

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jonottawa

[whereagles]

1. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

 

2. I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

1. If the guy with hearts is relaying, you *might* get to 7 scientifically.

 

2. That's the whole point. Some hands you just don't have the tools and should just be practical.

[pclayton]

Aight. Interest in this one seems to have petered out. Maybe it wasn't a fair question. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

 

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

 

and

 

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

 

I 'unilaterally bashed' on my 2nd call and bid 4NT. I wanted to bid 4NT while both my pard and I knew for sure what it meant (Keycard for Hearts) and not later when it could arguably mean Keycard for Spades, Keycard for Hearts, Blackwood ordinaire, or quantitative (like Codo was saying.)

 

I considered pard to be a heavy favorite to have 3, in which case I was bidding 7NT, hoping that either one of our suits ran or that there were 13 toppers anyway (like beatrix45 was saying.) He didn't. I bid 6NT. He had the 1st hand. Doh.

 

In hindsight, 3 Spades is probably better. But on the actual hand while you can delay the guess as long as you want, I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

 

It scored ok on BBO (lose 0.7) but might not do so well IRL. When I looked at all the auctions that got to 7, though, none of them made any sense. So I thought it would be a good problem.

 

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jonottawa

With a hand across you like this, you'll end up guessing. A direct 3♠ will elicit a preference with a doubleton. Isn;t that what you want to hear?

 

In some long sessions of bidding practice it seems a recurring problem are two strong hands with long, but not quite solid suits facing each other.