What is 5N?

[pclayton]

Adam and I played a TG the other night and I sprung this bid on him.

 

1♥ - (3♠) - 5N (!)

 

How would you take 5N?

[Guest Jlall]

Grand slam force, pick a slam makes no sense as you can just bid 4 of a suit forcing.

[jdonn]

Yeah, at first I thought GSF makes no sense either, but it could be very handy on a hand that is void in a suit besides spades.

[pclayton]

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?

[jdonn]

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?

Hands that would bid GSF here are going to be verrrry shapely, I would truly fear being bombarded in competition.

 

Also partner might interfere. 4♠ 5♠ 6♥ p back to us, are we sure he has the honors we need or maybe he just has a lot of shape too.

[jonottawa]

Where's the option:

 

Grand Slam force except with Phil in which case I'd bid 6 of my best minor and then correct 6 Hearts to 7 if I had 2.

 

B)

[joker_gib]

Grand slam force asking for trump honours

[whereagles]

You can argue like this:

 

"It can't be GSF because pard could have used RKCB if he wanted to know about trumps. So it must be some pick-a-slam."

 

or

 

"It can't be pick-a-slam because pard could have bid 4♦ followed by 6♣ if he wanted me to pick-a-slam."

 

or

 

"It can be GSF with a hand that, for some reason, does not want to know about keycards. That must be a hand with GS strength and a void, probably NOT in spades because with that hand pard could have just bid 5♠ voidwood followed by a trump queen ask."

 

Conclusion 1: pard has something like

 

Axx

Axxx

AKQxxx

--

 

Conclusion 2: if you think all this is far-fetched, you're right. This sort of undiscussed bid is better off not being made at table. The chance for a mix-up doesn't compensate eventual gains.

[Fluffy]

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.

[pclayton]

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.

More than 1 major - 5N? :)

[kfay]

I watched you play this hand so I know what you held but I'd take it as GSF as Adam did.

[ArtK78]

Why would anyone take up so much bidding space if it were not for a very clear reason - in this case, grand slam force?

 

I cannot imagine another interpretation of 5NT. If it was intended as something other than a grand slam force, it was asking for a disaster.

[pclayton]

I actually held: ♠x, ♥A, ♦KJTxx, ♣AQxxxx

 

I suppose I could bid 4♣ (like the other table). Adam had a death hand of ♠Kxx ♥KJ9xx ♦AQx ♣xx, yet 6♦ has chances. I really don't know what he does over 4♣. Nothing works here - KJTx of clubs sat over my hand and the hand was generally foul.

 

Adam took it as GSF and we played 6♥. He played it well for -300, which pushed with the other table, when they played 6♣.

 

If we had the agreement that this was PAS, I think he would opt for 6♦.

 

I think we rough up 3♠ pretty good. Its our best spot as it turns out.

[jdonn]

I would have bid 4♦ then 5♣ and hope for anything but 2-2 from partner, I'm not forcing to slam on suits with that many holes. Is not unreasonable I think to play 4♠ keycard and 4NT minors on this one specific auction, by agreement (can follow with 5♥ as slam try)

[han]

I was not online but someone told me on AIM "come look what Clayton just did!" so I came and watched.

 

I haven't discussed this auction but I think it should be GSF.

[skjaeran]

This is Josephine for sure - I don't understand why americans calls it Grand Slam Force (true - the bid is forcing, but it just invites a grand...).

[joker_gib]

This is Josephine for sure

Exactly ! :lol:

[Fluffy]

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.

More than 1 major - 5N? :)

I normally splinter when non competitive, but maybe for others :)

[Finch]

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?

Because all it wants to know is partner's trump honours. Why slow the auction down when you know what you want?

 

I agree this is obviously GSF, because nothing else really makes sense.

 

(on the actual hand I would bid 4C, opener would bid 4NT and as responder I'd have to guess. Looks like I would be going off in 4NT although double dummy it sounds as if there is some form of strip squeeze assuming a spade lead)