rbforster Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I was interested to read the results of a recent poll in the Bridge World's Master Solver's Club. The problem is repeated below: [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sjxxhaxdkqxxcakqx]133|100|Scoring: MP(1♠)-?[/hv] Despite having a 19 count, you have neither a stopper nor heart tolerance, so controlling the auction if you make the "normal" values double may be difficult since you can't bid NT later or raise hearts with only two. Of the experts, ~20% chose to double~60% chose a "heavy" 15-18 NT overcall without a stopper~20% chose a "heavy" pass(!), planning to show the minors later with 2N if possibleand a stray vote or two for 2♣ with only a 4 card suit. If most of the experts are unwilling to double with a 19 count, how far does this go? What about even stronger hands with the same shape, like: 22 count?JxxAQKQJxAKQx 24 count? JxxAJAKQxAKQx The stronger your hand gets, the worse pass looks since 1♠ is increasingly likely to be passed out (and to be a reasonable place with a friendly spade break and most of the spade honors in opener's hand). Would people here choose to double with these better hands? Still any passers or 1NT'ers with so many extra values? Do we have any takers for a 4-4 "unusual" 2NT or a 3♠ stopper ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'm surprised Jeff Rubens didn't bid 2C, maybe Kokish as well. Anyway, I agree with your statement, the stronger the hand, the less attractive pass is and also the less attractive 1NT becomes. Keep in mind that even when you have a Jxx AJ AKQx AKQx and RHO opens 1S, you probably can't make any game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'm surprised Jeff Rubens didn't bid 2C, maybe Kokish as well.My percentages were approximate - there were two 2♣ bidders (out of 25 votes), Carl Hudecek and David Berkowitz. Ruben was a minority doubler and Kokish chose 1NT. Anyway, I agree with your statement, the stronger the hand, the less attractive pass is and also the less attractive 1NT becomes. Keep in mind that even when you have a Jxx AJ AKQx AKQx and RHO opens 1S, you probably can't make any game.Right, it's still only 7 tricks even with 24 highs. Perhaps this is an argument for 1NT afterall - bid what you can make! You can even go down one in 2♥ as a good sac against their 1♠ making if partner has enough hearts to transfer you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I thought 1nt was pretty clear unless you are from Italy in which case you double with all hand types. :) Note now if LHO bids on the two level you can bid 2nt now for the minors. BTW this is a very common BW theme over the decades...bidding a direct or balancing seat NT without no stinking stoppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I thought 1nt was pretty clear unless you are from Italy in which case you double with all hand types. :) Note now if LHO bids on the two level you can bid 2nt now for the minors. The times I have seen experts make that bid, they had overcalled 1NT on a long suit and still wanted to declare, like QJx Ax xx AKQxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Power doublers unite! I bid an unsatisfied 1N I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Are power doubles really a solution to this hand? Sure, you won't have a problem choosing your call on this round but your problem on the next round may be much larger. I think that is quite likely actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 1NT for me. If I dbl, after p's 2♥ I will have to cue, and we might end in 3♥ in a 4-2 fit. I think I'll sooner bid 2♣ than dbl or pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Are power doubles really a solution to this hand? Sure, you won't have a problem choosing your call on this round but your problem on the next round may be much larger. I think that is quite likely actually.I'm not sure about that. I play power doubles and herbert negatives (first step 0-4 points, opposite a 15+ double), so at least you'll have an idea whether partner has any values or not before you have to make your unpalatable choice. I'd be much happier bidding 1NT knowning partner was almost broke, especially on the stronger balanced hands. This particular case of 1♠-X however (in contrast to over 1♥) is bad for the negative bid methods too though, since the 1NT advance by partner could be on any 0-4, or could be 5-7 balanced (not necessarily with a stopper). At least, that's the way I play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'd most probably make a 1NT overcall on this hand. And I'd overcall 2♣ long before I'd double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Double post - those things happen when you're chatting on messenger and posting simultaneously! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I would certainly not put 2♣ ahead of double. That is just begging to miss a game when partner has a 1NT response to a takeout double, or a weakish hand with long hearts. I don't think it's unreasonable to double and just pass 2♥, any other bid is good for you and even then partner might have five of them or you might make on power in the 4-2. But 1NT is fine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Double. Get it over with. OK, 2♥ might not be a pretty contract, but this I can live with. 1NT has many ways to lose:- We are too strong- We don't have a spade stopper- We have wrongsided NT- We have wrongsided ♥- It will be hard to get to a minor suit contract. 2♣ (or 2♦) is not for me. We are toast, if partner doesn't have fit there. But pass is especially bad. This is basically giving up on game, just for avoiding a silly partscore contract? Non ci capisco niente! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 If I was trying to score 100 in MSC I would have bid 1N, but I think the right bid is X. I used to always bid 1N with this hand type but I have learned from the italians...too many good things can happen if you X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Dbl + 2NT, in line with my "stoppers are for kids" theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysen2k Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Dbl for me, but I don't mind 1N. Tysen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 ♠ Jxx ♥ Ax ♦ KQxx ♣ AKQx after (1S)-??, the SJ is likely waste paper unless GOP has length or strength in ♠'s. I agree with the majority and downgrade my hand to a 1N overcall showing 15-18. Yes, I only have "1/2 a stop". But any other call is a worse distortion of my hand. Give me Jxx.xx.AKQx.AKQx or Jxx.Qx.(AKxx.AKQx) or the like, and I'm overcalling an unusual Unusual 2N! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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