Missed Grand

[pclayton]

Han and I perpetrated the auction against two W/C in the MBC last night. I'd appreciate your thoughts on each of the calls:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=skxhxdktxxckqxxxx&s=sajtxxhdaqxxcajxx]133|200|Scoring: XIMP[/hv]

 

1♠ -(4♥) - double - (4N)

Double - (pass) -pass - (5♦)

Double - (pass) - pass - (5♥)

5N - (6♥) - pass - (pass)

Double - AP

 

+800 but 7 of either minor is cold.

[Edmunte1]

South should have started bidding his hand with 5♥, not with those nonesense doubles. I think also East should have bid a a number of hearts faster (probably 6)

[han]

Agree that 4NT was just plain silly, although against unknown BBO experts it could easily work well. Let me not comment on the NS bidding.

[jdonn]

If south bid 5♥ instead of doubling 4NT, north would bid 6♣. Then over 6♥ by east, a forcing pass by south. That is an extremely strong auction and probably your best chance, but it would be naive of me to assume north would really bid a grand over that holding no aces. It's easy to say looking at both hands and (maybe?) in theory he should, but who the heck knows if he would have the guts. I couldn't blame him either way.

 

They probably would have sacced in 7♥ anyway so all you missed out on was 1100 instead of 800. Still of course it feels nicer to do the best that your side can.

 

Edit (5 minutes later): The more I look the more I don't know if what I said is asking too much of south, after all this makes a lot less if north doesn't have a long suit. Tough hand (often hands are hard to bid accurately when both players have the same shortage.)

[helene_t]

4NT worked against wellknown BBO experts as well, apparently B)

[han]

I doubt NS would have bid the grand over a direct 6♥ Helene. I think that north, with no first round controls, will not be willing to cooperate and south can't be the grand all on his own.

 

Let me raise some questions about the actual auction:

 

1. Should north bid 5C over 4NTX instead of passing?

 

2. Is north good enough to pass 6H?

 

3. Should south bid the grand after north passes 6H?

[Guest Jlall]

3. Should south bid the grand after north passes 6H?

Yes. When partner makes a forcing pass trying for grand into my FOUR first round controls it's hard for me not to expect him to have everything else.

[ArtK78]

2. Is north good enough to pass 6H?

That is the more pertinent question.

 

The only way that NS can make a grand slam is if South has first round control in all four suits. Does a forcing pass here ask South to bid a grand ONLY IF he has all four first round controls? I don't think so. North can have a very good hand on this auction. If South had, for example,

 

AQJxx

A

QJxxx

Ax

 

or

 

AQJxxx

A

AQJxx

x

 

Would he know NOT to bid a grand slam if North passed over 6♥?

 

Yes, if North passes 6♥ on the actual hand, South should bid the grand. But I don't think that North should pass 6♥ without a single first round control.

[pclayton]

2. Is north good enough to pass 6H?

That is the more pertinent question.

 

The only way that NS can make a grand slam is if South has first round control in all four suits. Does a forcing pass here ask South to bid a grand ONLY IF he has all four first round controls? I don't think so. North is unlimited on this auction. If South had, for example,

 

AQJxx

A

QJxxx

Ax

 

Would he know NOT to bid a grand slam if North passed over 6♥?

 

Yes, if North passes 6♥ on the actual hand, South should bid the grand. But I don't think that North should pass 6♥ without a single first round control.

Why would this hand bid 5N over 5♥?

[ArtK78]

2. Is north good enough to pass 6H?

That is the more pertinent question.

 

The only way that NS can make a grand slam is if South has first round control in all four suits. Does a forcing pass here ask South to bid a grand ONLY IF he has all four first round controls? I don't think so. North is unlimited on this auction. If South had, for example,

 

AQJxx

A

QJxxx

Ax

 

Would he know NOT to bid a grand slam if North passed over 6♥?

 

Yes, if North passes 6♥ on the actual hand, South should bid the grand. But I don't think that North should pass 6♥ without a single first round control.

Why would this hand bid 5N over 5♥?

Perhaps to convey that the 5♦ bid was a psyche, and intending to convert clubs to dlamonds.

 

In any event, it makes at least as much sense as all of the doubles.

 

But that is not the point of my post. The point is whether North is good enough to make a forcing pass over 6♥.

 

By the way, I edited my post after you responded to it: hence the difference between my post and your quote of my post.

[benlessard]

How can south not bid 7 when partner made a forcing pass of 6H ?

 

Once south X 4nt its clear you are in FP. After the double of 5D even the kibbitzer know its a psych.

 

These psych dont really work at club level anymore so i would be kind of insulted if some1 try these tricks against me ;)

 

I think north hand is barely strong enough for a FP

[skjaeran]

I'd not expect anything LESS than the actual north hand for the FP after 6♥, so I'd defenitely bid 7♣ now as south.

[han]

Not 6NT Harald, pick-a-grand-slam?

[pclayton]

I was South, Han was North. After I've had several days to think about it, here's my objective view of each call:

 

1♠ - Duh.

 

Double of 4♥: Is it really clear at these colors with a 6-4 and a valuable ♠Kx? I gave both hands to someone I consider my mentor and I thought 4N or 5♣ were superior to double. How flexible can a double be? Is it attractive with a stiff heart?

 

(4N) - Not our call, but this one was rather silly. It gave me a lot of room to explore (which I did not take advantage of).

 

Double of 4N - Pointless. Its 100 to 1 that RHO isn't horsing around with a heart fit. 5♥ is 100% clear.

 

Pass of the double of 4N - OK I guess but it doesn't convey to pard any information about your hand.

 

Double of 5♦ - Again pointless, but if RHO is bidding it on a diamond void, this may be the only way to get to 7♦.

 

Pass of the Double of 5♦ - Reasonable, since you don't have anything better to do.

 

5N - I think this is clear and is the only correct call I made other than 1♠.

 

Pass of 6♥ - I think we can write a book about what this should or shouldn't show. While it is a very strong bid, I think it absolutely promises a first round heart control.

 

I'll finish this later :D

[jdonn]

Double of 4♥: Is it really clear at these colors with a 6-4 and a valuable ♠Kx? I gave both hands to someone I consider my mentor and I thought 4N or 5♣ were superior to double. How flexible can a double be? Is it attractive with a stiff heart?

Sorry to your mentor but I think he is off his rocker. 5♣ on KQxxxx? Good luck when partner has a singleton. And 4NT is even worse, it just deserves partner with 5332 where you gave up your penalty vs. 4♥ to play at the five level in a 4-3 minor suit fit. Heck I would put 4♠ ahead of both those bids (just imagine making those bids and finding partner with six spades!) But I still think double is obvious.

 

Your other points seems reasonable at a glance.

[skjaeran]

Not 6NT Harald, pick-a-grand-slam?

No Han. I believe 6NT would be to play with wasted values in ♥s, KQx/AJT or something like that.

[han]

I was just kidding Harald :D.