Judgement call

[Codo]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=skq432ha9d6543ckq]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

You start the bidding with

1♠ 2 ♥

2 ♠ 3 ♦

 

Pds bids: 2 Heart was nearly gf 5+ Heart.

3 Diamond is his second suit. With a 5332 he had raised spades or bid NT, so 4+ Diamonds is certain.

Your 2 Spade bid shows an unbalanced hand (6 Spades or 5 Spades and a second 4 card suit) and 11-14 HCPs.

 

You may explain me how you plan the later bidding if there is one.

[Gerben42]

I voted 3NT, but I shouldn't have shown an unbalanced hand 1 round earlier.

[ArtK78]

Is 3♦ game forcing? I am going to assume that it is.

 

I bid 3NT. No call is perfect. But I have two big club cards, so if I bid 3♥ now we may miss 3NT when it is the right spot.

 

Partner's failure to bid 3♠ indicates less than 3 spades, so he may have some club cards. Or he could be 2-5-5-1. Again, no call is perfect.

[P_Marlowe]

3NT.

 

what else, you gave the reason in

the describtion of the bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

I don't understand why 3H now shows 3+ hearts, what would you have bid last round on KQxxx Axx Kxxx x? Or do you mean 2S was totally artificial i.e. could be 6016 or 5521 (say) ?

[han]

Good problem.

 

The black honors point at 3NT. However, we only have a single club stopper, 4-card diamond support and ace-doubleton of hearts that we haven't shown.

 

We have 4-card diamond support and partner shouldn't be bidding like this with 5-4 distribution (partner should typically bid 2NT with that, allowing us to pattern out). However, with 4 baby diamonds and such unsuitable highcards for a diamond contract I am very reluctant to bid 4D.

 

The third option is 3H. This shows doubleton support (often with an honor) and is most flexible: it keeps all strains in play.

[Codo]

I don't understand why 3H now shows 3+ hearts, what would you have bid last round on KQxxx Axx Kxxx x? Or do you mean 2S was totally artificial i.e. could be 6016 or 5521 (say) ?

2 ♠ denies game forcing strength, so if you have a fit, you may have a real crappy opener. I think, with the prime cards from your example and the singelton, we would raise direct. But make it a little weaker and we would bid 2 Spade first and raise Heart later.

 

Maybe this is not optimal, but it fits well in the overall structure after 1 Major -2 any.

[Codo]

I voted 3NT, but I shouldn't have shown an unbalanced hand 1 round earlier.

Good point, but:

 

We open all NT range hands (11-14) with 5332 with 1 NT, so if you treated your hand as balanced you had to choose 15+ and bid 2 NT instead of 2 Spade or open 1 NT.

Both ways are possible, however,2 NT is a silghtly overbid and a 1 NT opener maybe with a 5 card major and the slgthly wrong shape will creat other problems, so we normally don´t do this.

[whereagles]

3NT, but not too happy about it.

[neilkaz]

Your system says "3 NT Club stopper, semibalanced, so 5422 (With the 4 cards being a minor)"

 

That's what I have..so it is 3NT but if I could bid 3♥ here to keep more options open and only show two card support, I think I somwhat prefer that since I expect to have issues in 3NT after the obvious ♣ lead.

 

.. neilkaz ..hope 3NT makes

[helene_t]

What neilkaz said.

 

How can 2♠ deny GF strength? What do you do with a AJxxxx-Ax-xx-AQx ?

[jdonn]

3♥. This is automatic to me. There are still good chances to get to 3NT, but bidding 3NT now is nothing more than an educated guess.

[skjaeran]

3♥. This is automatic to me. There are still good chances to get to 3NT, but bidding 3NT now is nothing more than an educated guess.

Agree. Btw, I'd have rebid 2NT instead of 2♠ (unless that's conventional or something).

[pclayton]

3♥.

 

I'd rather use a scalpel here than a sledgehammer.

[awm]

To look at things another way....

 

Why is partner bidding like this? He knows we have a minimum. He could have just bid 3NT at his second call. Why bother introducing diamonds? Some reasons:

 

(1) He has a short/weak club holding, and does not want to bid 3NT by himself. In this case, there is no guarantee that we belong in 3NT on my single stopper.

 

(2) He thinks we might have slam. Considering, our hand is actually quite good. We are maximum for our "2♠ minimum" bid, we have a fit for diamonds and no jacks. It might be worth cooperating, since 3NT would really sound like a 5224 hand.

[mike777]

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ KQ432 ♥ A9 ♦ 6543 ♣ KQ

 

You start the bidding with

1♠  2 ♥

2 ♠ 3 ♦

 

Pds bids: 2 Heart was nearly gf 5+ Heart.

              3 Diamond is his second suit.  With a 5332 he had raised spades or bid NT, so 4+ Diamonds is certain.

Your 2 Spade bid shows an unbalanced hand (6 Spades or 5 Spades and a second 4 card suit) and 11-14 HCPs.

 

You may explain me how you plan the later bidding if there is one.

Intersting forum responses so far. Given that partner is:

1) game forcing

2) 5H and 4D

3) Knows we are minimum with 6 spades or 5 spades and some unknown second suit.

 

I will simple support partner with 4D. Now he knows, in your system, I got 5 spades and 4D 11-14 pts yes?

 

IF he does not want me to support him with 4 card support and a max, when responder is unlimited.....tell me next time partner :unsure:

[dburn]

Close between 3♥ and "abstain, this system is sick", which it is if I can't bid 3♥ with this hand now having not supported hearts on the previous round. Since I can't abstain at the table, will bid 3♥, but I can see trouble ahead.

[Winstonm]

I much prefer 2N the first time rather than 2S.

 

In the auction given, I'm going to bid 3H - this seems the most flexible.

 

edit: I just noticed that 3H in this sequence is supposed to show 3H - is there any possible valid explanation for this other than to screw up the bidding?

 

I still bid 3H.....

[mike777]

I remain baffled how so few cannot bid a simple 4d here?

 

We have a maximum, not a perfect maximum, and 4 card support for partner.

Responder is unlimited with 5+H and 4+D. If I understand the OP our 4D bids shows 11-14 hcp...and 5spades and 4Diamonds.

 

If we do not want to play this system, or we wish to invent a new system, or if we are not suppose to support partner, fair enough, just tell me that partner. If 4D only shows a perfect maximum, ok...put that into the system notes.

[jdonn]

I remain baffled how so few cannot bid a simple 4d here?

 

We have a maximum, not a perfect maximum, and 4 card support for partner.

Responder is unlimited with 5+H and 4+D. If I understand the OP our 4D bids shows 11-14 hcp...and 5spades and 4Diamonds.

 

If we do not want to play this system, or we wish to invent a new system, or if we are not suppose to support partner, fair enough, just tell me that partner. If 4D only shows a perfect maximum, ok...put that into the system notes.

It has nothing to do with need a maximum Mike, it's called flexibility. You can no longer play 3NT if you raise diamonds. Or find good 5-2 heart fits. And all for the joy of raising partner's second suit with xxxx, in a minor? Sorry but 4♦ is really not a good bid, this hand is about looking for the best game first and foremost, not following some rule that you must raise partner with any support always.

[awm]

On the other hand, consider some of these hands for partner:

 

A

Kxxxx

AKxxx

xx

 

Looks like 5♦ is cold, and 6♦ will make if diamonds are 2-2. Three notrump is down one on the obvious club lead unless diamonds are 2-2. Think partner should move over 1♠-2♥-2♠-3♦-3NT? Why? It seems like a misfit and you have 26-28 hcp.

 

xx

KQJxx

AKxx

xx

 

Again, absolutely no reason partner would bid over 3NT. Again 3NT produces only 8 tricks. Of course, 4♥ has excellent chances.

 

-

KQJxx

AQJxx

xxx

 

Again, why remove 3NT? Of course, if the diamond finesse is on then 3NT can make. But 6♦ is on the same finesse, and 5♦ is cold.

 

Are these hands "just unlucky"? Sure, they are somewhat unlucky. But keep in mind that partner has shown 9+ red cards and might've bid 3NT himself on a minimum with 1-5-4-3 and some club help. You're probably getting a club lead and going to need nine runners to make 3NT. Certainly there are hands for partner that produce nine runners, but most of these will make 4♥ too.

 

I really don't like a 3NT bid here. I can see 3♥ to keep notrump in the picture, or a 4♦ raise.

[jdonn]

Those hand are perfect examples of why you should bid 3♥.

 

First one, it continues 4♦ p 5♦

 

Second one partner bids 4♥. This is the only (reasonable) way to reach that contract

 

Third one, 4♦ p 5♦ again

 

But there are hands where you want to play 3NT as well. Try getting there after 4♦.

[Codo]

On this particular hand, 4 Diamond had worked best, it had reached 6 Diamonds opposite

♠ A7

♥ K7632

♦ KQJ5

♣ AJ

 

Or bidding was:

1 ♠ 2 ♥

2 ♠ 3 ♦

3 ♥ 3 ♠ (3 Spade showed 2 card spade support, so confirmed the club problem.

4 ♥ 4 NT

5 ♣ 5 ♥

 

Well the trumps suit was not too solid, so one off.

5 Spade or 6 Diamonds are better contracts.

 

But this is was not the question, I think the wheel felt off later, I just wanted to know your judgement in the most interessting situation of this bidding.

 

For all those who dislike the idea that 3 Heart normally shows 3 card support:

You normally raise 1 m 1 M to 2 M with 4 card support, but sometimes with three.

You normally have 6 cards for a weak two, 7 cards for a weak 3. etc.

Sometimes you don´t.

[Halo]

4D

 

I'd rather give up on NT and play in a red suit. Presumably my slam interest is in the context of the weak hand I showed with 2S - so that's OK.

[easy]

if playing 2/1 almost forcing to game how is it that 3d is 100% natural?

 

holding [hv=s=skxhaqjxxxdaxxcxx]133|100|[/hv]

 

isnt your only alternative at your second turn to call 3d in following auction since a 3h rebid would be non forcing ie:

 

1s-2h

2s-3h

 

i like 3h rather than d raise.