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[jonottawa]

""4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem."

 

I'm not sure it solves the problem. Besides, Red vs White could you not want to play in 4NT rather than whip 4 Spades with something like Kx xx AKxxxxx xx? (Fearing a Spade ruff against 5m.)"

 

Let me pass on a comment that was made to me by a top player many years ago. Aiming for precisely 10 tricks is fairyland, as it is too narrow a margin for which to aim. What he meant was that to bid 4NT with a view to playing there is a foolish target. Far better to use the 4NT bid as a get out. On your given hand for example, can you guarantee that the Ds will run? No, of course not, especially given the pre empt. (Of course if the Ds break badly, 5D may well go down as well, but quite probably less so.)

I don't agree that with the example hand I gave you wouldn't want to bid 4N natural at these colors if that bid were available. The threat of a Spade ruff is too high. That's a very specific hand, though.

 

I do agree that in general, you'll get more use/frequency out of using 4N as 2 suits and would have assumed that treatment at any other colors. I think 5♠ is still the right bid on the actual hand, though.

[Fluffy]

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you B)

 

What I'd like to know is what made you pick 5♠ then 6♠, dismishing other aproaches such as 5NT then 6♠, 5NT then 7♣ or 5♠ then 7♣. I don't mean any of those is really better, but they would at least had come to mind.

[jdonn]

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you B)

If a grand slam auction is posted and blame is asked for, almost all people will always give it to whoever forced to the grand, regardless of what either player did or whether it was justified or not or whether other grands make, etc. That's just how people are.

[jonottawa]

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you B)

 

What I'd like to know is what made you pick 5♠ then 6♠, dismishing other aproaches such as 5NT then 6♠, 5NT then 7♣ or 5♠ then 7♣. I don't mean any of those is really better, but they would at least had come to mind.

I actually expected to receive most of the blame in the voting (for the reason Josh stated.) What I didn't expect was that well over half the folks (at least in the early voting) would give me 90-100% of the blame. That's just patently absurd when 7 is cold in 3 strains on this auction with that moose when partner had other options strongly suggested by the auction.

 

I don't have strong feelings about the 5♠ vs 5NT question. 5♠ is lower. 5♠ will NEVER get passed. 5♠ arguably suggests a ♠ void. 5♠ arguably suggests interest in a grand. 5♠ arguably gives you a chance to diagnose the big-time ♠ wastage that keeps you out of a bad grand. On the downside, pard might have taken 5♠ as exclusion.

 

I love 6♠ because in 2 bids I've managed to paint a clear picture of my exact hand. Pard knows with a fairly high degree of confidence that I have:

 

- / Axxxx / K?? / AK?xx

 

I don't think 7♣ paints nearly so clear a picture.

[benlessard]

"After 6D North need to pass IMHO. After the 6S i would be annoyed and probably bid 7 D too."

 

In my experience, being annoyed isn't conductive to good decision-making.

 

 

I agree. But bidding a grand that could cost 14+ Imps when im not sure about our agreement is still annoying to me.

 

Was 4Nt natural or 2suited take-out I don't know

 

Was 5S Exclusion ? I don't know.

 

Do 5S suggest the 7 level I don't know

 

What would 5Nt show ? we dont know.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to see if partner took ur 5S as exclusion or trying for 7 or just that the 3 strain are possible ? Im pretty sure your partner was annoyed too by your 6S.

 

 

Anyway i understand your point that over 6S partner had options other then 7D because.

 

You force him to 7 so youre not worried about Aces or Kings or spades.

 

So therefore you are worried about QJ or spots for trumps.

 

So 7H is definetly an option KQJ seems like a great support.

 

But you can have

Axxx

KQx

AKxxxx

 

where 7H goes down if H are 5-1

 

what about

 

Axxxx

KQJ

AKxxx

 

where you want to be in 7D but not 7C, 7H or 7Nt .

 

 

 

I admit that the more i think about the hand the more i think 7Nt is safer then 7D.

 

But remember your partner didnt have the time i had to think about it.

 

 

PS if possible i would invite to 7 with your hand not force. There is quite a few hand where partner will have wasted values in S or hands with a H doubleton and 7 will have no play.

You did hit partner with a maximum with not too much wastage and only 2S.