Slam Bidding after a 1NT Opening

[jdeegan]

:huh: Playing IMPs, 15-17 NT, and '4 way xfers' (2♠ response shows clubs and 2NT shows diamonds) my regular partner and I tackled the following hand:[hv=d=s&v=b&n=saq76hk9da972ca107&s=skj94ha107dq4cq986]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1NT-P-2♣-P

2♠-P-5♠-P

???[/hv]

Does north have a better bid than 5♠?

What does south need to bid 6♠ on this auction?

Do you have a recommended auction with these cards and this system?

 

It turns out that by guessing the clubs, south can just eke out 11 tricks in spades on a hand where the lie of the cards is friendly.

 

What do you think about 4 way xfers over 1NT openers (I loathe them)? Is that the problem here?

 

My own preference is to play 2♠ over 1NT as Baron. Bidding all suits up the line with an eye toward slam. This auction would start:

1NT-P-2♠-P

3♣-P-3♠-P

4♠-P-???

 

At this point responder would know opener had 4♣, 4♠ and a moderate 1NT opener. With a good 1NT opener, south's second bid would have been a space saving 2NT. With a bad 1NT opener, it would have been a 'fast arrival' 3NT.

[dicklont]

This is not a matter of method but of judgement.

North opened a regular 15-17 NT. Responder has 12 points and no special features. It is ok for 3NT or 4♠. I see no reason to make any slam try.

 

Yes North has a better bid then 5♠ and it is 4♠.

[helene_t]

I think it was North who opened and South who bid 5♠, seems more consistent with the auction if you play 15-17.

 

Agree with dicklont but more generally, after 2♠ it's a nice agreement (and almost standard) that 3♥ is a forcing spades raise.

[Free]

After 1NT-2♣-2M, you can use 3OM as slam going with fit in opener's Major. Now you can start cuebids, have a serious or frivolous 3NT available,...

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the given hand is not a good example to discuss

4 way xfers, I dont play them, but if I would, and

why not, your method seems as good as anything

else.

 

As was already mentioned, the auction should go

 

1 NT - 2C

2S.. - 3H (*)

...

 

(*) slam try for spades

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[kgr]

As was already mentioned, the auction should go

 

1 NT - 2C

2S.. - 3H (*)

...

 

(*) slam try for spades

How will the bidding continue?

(I don't think the South hand is good enough for a slam try)

[mike777]

1) Agree with others not good enough for a slam try.

2) 3H=slam try invites cuebids.

3) IF you want something simple over 2S try:

a: 4H=rkc for spades now

b: 4C=splinter for spades now

c: 4D=splinter for spades now

4) 4nt=quantatative

[blackshoe]

One has to wonder why no one called the director, given that North opened the bidding when South was dealer. :)

 

I agree with Mike. :D

[kenrexford]

Responder has KJ9x-Axx-Qx-Qxxx. I'm trying to imagine a hand opposite that offers play for a slam. A fifth spade might help, maybe Axxxx. That's four points and a fair shake at the Queen. I want the diamond Queen to be worth something, so I imagine AKJx, allowing a ditch of both heart losers and taking away the need for anything in hearts. That's 12 HCP's. Now, I could imagine another 5 HCP's in clubs -- maybe AJ?

 

That gives me a very remote Axxxx-xx-AKJx-AJ. That's a decent slam. I suppose A10xx-xxx-AKJx-AJ or A10xx-xx-AKJx-AJ10 works, but that's much more tenuous.

 

So, judgment suggests giving up on slam ambitions.

 

However, if Responder had the right hand, he could, as many mention, use the tool of 3OM as an artificial slam try. If you add in a few other tools, you will get a good deal of definition. I'd suggest that you incorporate a Serious 3NT into this structure, as well as Last Train. I also think that it helps if Opener's minor cuebids promise two of the top three honors in the minor, but I may be in the minority there.

 

One more nice treatment to consider, when the agreed maor is spades and the other major, of course, is hearts. The 3OM call of 3♥ allows Opener to cuebid 3♠. I think that this should mean something. My personal preference is for a cue of the agreed suit, below game, to show two of the top three honors (and, accordingly, a failure denying two of the top three). This is sort of a sneak peak at part of what the RKCB call will be, at least as to trumps. When trumps are poor, this suggests a wise sign-off before reaching the five-level.

 

I also would suggest discussing whether 3OM can induce a 4M jump and what that means. After a NT opening, I usually define that call as very disinterested. Opener is not very disinterested unless his response to 4NT (RKCB) would be worse that two with the Queen. Thus, he has 0-1 key cards, or two without the Queen. With two and the Queen, or 3+, he must cooperate somehow.

[P_Marlowe]

As was already mentioned, the auction should go

 

1 NT - 2C

2S..  - 3H (*)

...

 

(*) slam try for spades

How will the bidding continue?

(I don't think the South hand is good enough for a slam try)

ok, I wont discuss if the hand is good enough,

the original poster though so, hence the strength

was ok, ... maybe he saw the hand through pink

looking glasses, I dont know, and it did not

matter to me.

 

After 3H, the NT opener can bid 3NT as serious /

non serious, showin a control rich / poor hand,

or make a cue, or if does not have one, bid 4S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe